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  1. #1
    Fantastic Member Sparko's Avatar
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    Default What did you think about the recent Scarlet Spider series?

    So just as the title asks, what are your thoughts on the recent Peter David Ben Reiley book? Did you enjoy the writing? What about the art? No spoilers, please!

  2. #2
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    The book is pretty tight for the first arc when God Bagley is on it, then the plot kinda goes off the rails and starts meandering too hard, the old PAD problem of jamming stuff in from his old work strikes again, the art starts rotating between artists with totally different styles (although in a vaccuum everything looked good), a lot of the conflicts will get very suddenly resolved, and issues will just be pretty empty and fly by. Not really recommended.

    The ending is goddamn gold, though.
    heroine addict we love you come back

  3. #3
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    It features Ben teaming up with Kaine and the Slingers.

    'Nuff said.

    -Pav, who was glad to have it...
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  4. #4
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    Ben Reilly was all over the place, ending ignored in spidergeddon, too much emphasis on the supernatural in a book that started as a character study. Only recommend the stuff with Kaine and some of the slingers stuff.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    IMO, it was a hot mess but given its source material (the abomination that was Clone Conspiracy Ben) that is to be expected.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  6. #6
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    As someone who grew up started reading Spider-Man around the mid-nineties clone saga, I was hoping for some more bonds of relevance from that period, than just Ben and Kaine. Jessica? Desiree? Janine? The Daily Grind Gang? Or his original arch-nemesis, Carolyn Trainer Doctor Octopus?

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    As someone who grew up started reading Spider-Man around the mid-nineties clone saga, I was hoping for some more bonds of relevance from that period, than just Ben and Kaine. Jessica? Desiree? Janine? The Daily Grind Gang? Or his original arch-nemesis, Carolyn Trainer Doctor Octopus?
    Lack of these characters and story setpieces were disappointing aspects of an overall disappointing series based upon an even more disappointing main character return. Did I mention how much I'm disappointed by NuBen?
    Last edited by Celgress; 05-12-2019 at 09:18 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  8. #8
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngroove View Post
    As someone who grew up started reading Spider-Man around the mid-nineties clone saga, I was hoping for some more bonds of relevance from that period, than just Ben and Kaine. Jessica? Desiree? Janine? The Daily Grind Gang? Or his original arch-nemesis, Carolyn Trainer Doctor Octopus?
    Don't forget Joystick! In fact, given that the setting was Las Vegas, a gambling hotspot if there ever was one, the Great Game could've easily made a comeback there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Lack of these characters and story setpieces were disappointing aspects of an overall disappointing series based upon an even more disappointing main character return. Did I mention how much I'm disappointed by NuBen?
    I can relate.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #9
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    This book was a complete mess, and I don’t think PAD is really to blame.

    To me, it looks like PAD was told he is being given a beloved character to rejuvenate as he sees fit with superstar artist Mark Bagley... As long as the main reference point for the character was the Clone Conspiracy.
    But then he got hit by a revolving door of artists, was told he to tie into other books, insert certain themes, use certain characters, and, finally, that everything he had written would be completely ignored as someone else had already written the last story arc for him.

    It would explain why the final issue feels like such a massive F**K YOU, which I never felt was aimed at the reader or Ben’s fans (although some took it that way).

    I think the first arc, maybe a bit more, was what PAD had planned and everything afterwards was him scrambling to course adjust under constantly shifting editorial whims. He dealt with the same stuff, to a degree, on SM 2099. It was a decent effort, PAD’s talent was evident as always, his craft is still something to be admired, but even if I’m not 100% with my take on this, he was dealt a bad hand with that ending.

    Now, that first arc wasn’t what I wanted, anyway. Not PAD’s fault necessarily, as I’m pretty sure this would have been decided by editorial, but I wanted to see Ben back in New York, revisiting old friends, landmarks, enemies. I wanted to see Ben interact with MJ, Norman Osborn, Carolyn Trainer. I wanted to see Ben gravitate towards Peter, his “brother”, for better or worse. Imagine a truly heroic Kaine determined to keep Ben from peter, paralleling his original role, but with the hero and villain roles reversed.

    Most importantly, both Ben and Kaine’s solo series’ failed to explore what I see as the basis of their characters; how would Peter react under different circumstances? Both series spent so much time trying to build Ben and Kaine as their own characters away from Peter, that they keep forgetting that they ARE Peter. To my mind, that is the entire appeal of these characters, and clone stories in general. Peter Parker doesn’t kill, so how does he (Ben) deal with the fact that he has killed? Does he now see himself as the villain? Does he still believe in his work at New U? Does he try to rebuild?

    It’s fine to gloss over these things in The Clone Conspiracy, as it is from Peter’s perspective, not Ben’s. I’d probably be the only guy buying it, but I would have loved the first 12 or so issues to be the entire Clone Conspiracy again from Ben’s perspective. Building New U, developing relationships with the “resurrected”, realising Peter isn’t going to see him as the hero he believes himself to be.

    On a lighter note, can we all at least all agree that there shouldn’t be mouth holes on “Spider-man” costumes? As if Spidercide weren't warning enough.
    Just. Be. Nice.

  10. #10
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    To clarify, David only took the job because Ben came back interstin-- I mean, unhinged.

    heroine addict we love you come back

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    To clarify, David only took the job because Ben came back interstin-- I mean, unhinged.

    He was always interesting. Anyone who's ever read Lost Years and Redemption will tell you that.

  12. #12
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Started out strong (even though Ben was basically acting and looking like Deadpool. Heck, even Lady Death was hanging out with him!) but completely fell apart around that event tie-in with Dr. Strange and the other mystic characters.
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  13. #13
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    This book was a complete mess, and I don’t think PAD is really to blame.

    To me, it looks like PAD was told he is being given a beloved character to rejuvenate as he sees fit with superstar artist Mark Bagley... As long as the main reference point for the character was the Clone Conspiracy.
    But then he got hit by a revolving door of artists, was told he to tie into other books, insert certain themes, use certain characters, and, finally, that everything he had written would be completely ignored as someone else had already written the last story arc for him.

    It would explain why the final issue feels like such a massive F**K YOU, which I never felt was aimed at the reader or Ben’s fans (although some took it that way).

    I think the first arc, maybe a bit more, was what PAD had planned and everything afterwards was him scrambling to course adjust under constantly shifting editorial whims. He dealt with the same stuff, to a degree, on SM 2099. It was a decent effort, PAD’s talent was evident as always, his craft is still something to be admired, but even if I’m not 100% with my take on this, he was dealt a bad hand with that ending.

    Now, that first arc wasn’t what I wanted, anyway. Not PAD’s fault necessarily, as I’m pretty sure this would have been decided by editorial, but I wanted to see Ben back in New York, revisiting old friends, landmarks, enemies. I wanted to see Ben interact with MJ, Norman Osborn, Carolyn Trainer. I wanted to see Ben gravitate towards Peter, his “brother”, for better or worse. Imagine a truly heroic Kaine determined to keep Ben from peter, paralleling his original role, but with the hero and villain roles reversed.

    Most importantly, both Ben and Kaine’s solo series’ failed to explore what I see as the basis of their characters; how would Peter react under different circumstances? Both series spent so much time trying to build Ben and Kaine as their own characters away from Peter, that they keep forgetting that they ARE Peter. To my mind, that is the entire appeal of these characters, and clone stories in general. Peter Parker doesn’t kill, so how does he (Ben) deal with the fact that he has killed? Does he now see himself as the villain? Does he still believe in his work at New U? Does he try to rebuild?

    It’s fine to gloss over these things in The Clone Conspiracy, as it is from Peter’s perspective, not Ben’s. I’d probably be the only guy buying it, but I would have loved the first 12 or so issues to be the entire Clone Conspiracy again from Ben’s perspective. Building New U, developing relationships with the “resurrected”, realising Peter isn’t going to see him as the hero he believes himself to be.

    On a lighter note, can we all at least all agree that there shouldn’t be mouth holes on “Spider-man” costumes? As if Spidercide weren't warning enough.
    I would have loved to see that story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    He was always interesting. Anyone who's ever read Lost Years and Redemption will tell you that.
    Damn right. It's why I'd prefer, if Scarlet Spider ever gets another try, that J.M. DeMatteis return (with Chris Yost tagging along) to script it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Started out strong (even though Ben was basically acting and looking like Deadpool. Heck, even Lady Death was hanging out with him!) but completely fell apart around that event tie-in with Dr. Strange and the other mystic characters.
    Hmm, there was a slight difference. Mistress Death was attracted to Wade/Deadpool because of how much he wanted to die and how they kept getting pulled apart by his healing factor, whereas with Ben, she was fascinated by how many times he'd died and been reanimated and the negative cumulative effects on his soul. That said, I did like their dynamic.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #14
    Disney Subsidiary Personamanx's Avatar
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    I liked it for a bit, but I definitely fell off with its tie-in to Damnation. Only bought it for Kaine.
    Continuity, even in a "shared" comics universe is often insignificant if not largely detrimental to the quality of a comic.

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  15. #15
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    meh.

    i kept trying to like it, since i was a massive reilly fan as a kid. but that's not necessarily the fault of the creative team...you can't recapture those feels again. even the issues i thought were good, didn't really motivate me to keep reading.
    troo fan or death

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