Will SPIDER-MAN: FAR FROM HOME be the first billion dollar SPIDER-MAN film?

[JKtheMac]

Pertinent to the way the international audience is proportionally high for this movie, I have noticed at least two US reviews (and I didn’t really do a comprehensive study) mentioned this movie needed more jokes. This flies in the face of the showing I went to in the UK which was laughing just as much as Ragnarok if not more. I personally think I laughed more, and more consistently throughout this movie than any other MCU movie, and expressed coming out that it was the most fun MCU movie so far.

I wonder if some of the sequences don’t play as funny to Americans. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Some of the humour was very dry I suppose. Some was even aimed specifically at a European audience.

I wonder if this is also reflected in the relative pessimism in the pole as to whether this would reach 1Billion, which it is easily surpassing based on the international response.

It also highlights why brand experts say Spider-Man is the biggest global superhero brand. Surpassing Batman by a long way.

[DanMad1977]

Surpassing Batman right now? Or what do you mean by that? In terms of merchandise?

[JKtheMac]

Surpassing Batman right now? Or what do you mean by that? In terms of merchandise?

See Hollywood Reporter from 2014 for an example. Things will only have shifted more in that direction.

Note the huge difference internationally.

[JKtheMac]

BTW here is the rather bland and non-specific circumstance for movies from the Disney 2018 annual report. It is still interesting reading. It will be very interesting to see what it says this year.

Prior to the Company’s acquisition of Marvel in fiscal year 2010, Marvel had licensed the rights to third-party studios to produce and distribute feature films based on certain Marvel properties including Spider-Man (licensed to Sony Pictures Entertainment), The Fantastic Four (licensed to 21CF) and X-Men (licensed to 21CF). Under the licensing arrangements, the third-party studios incur the costs to produce and distribute the films, and the Company retains the merchandise licensing rights. Under the licensing arrangement for Spider-Man, the Company pays the third-party studio a licensing fee based on each film’s box office receipts, subject to specified limits. Under the licensing arrangements for The Fantastic Four and X-Men, the third-party studio pays the Company a licensing fee and receives a share of the Company’s merchandise revenue on these properties. The Company distributes all Marvel-produced films with the exception of The Incredible Hulk, which is distributed by Universal Pictures.

It is this consideration, who gets to licence what, that is the biggest issue in the Marvel film arrangements. This is why it was worth making the Fox deal. This is why they have a new arrangement with Sony (reflected somewhat simply here). When you consider how much Spider-Man marketing is worth in merchandise it puts things in perspective.

[TheDarman]

It officially happened.

[The True Detective]

See Hollywood Reporter from 2014 for an example. Things will only have shifted more in that direction.

Note the huge difference internationally.

Actually since that time Batman has gotten a lot closer to Spider-Man in merchandise sales, in 2017 Spider-Man sold $1.402B worth of merch and Batman sold $1.024B. Also in their franchises respective histories Spider-Man has sold $14.805B of merchandise to Batman's $20.202B. Yes the Batman franchise is 23 years older, but the Superman franchise is a year older and has sold $5.381B of merchandise.

Info from Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...anchises#Notes

[Comic-Reader Lad]

It officially happened.

Yes, Spider-Man FFH has crossed $1 billion even if it's not reflected at Box Office Mojo just yet. Mojo is typically a day or two behind.

Basically, it only took Far From Home 24 days to hit a billion.

Here's the article from Deadline.com

https://deadline.com/2019/07/spider-...el-1202653689/

Sony/Marvel’s Spider-Man: Far From Home will swing past the $1B mark at the global box office today. The Jon Watts-directed sequel is now the only Spider-Man movie to hit the coveted milestone. As we reported Sunday, it had already become the biggest of the franchise worldwide.

The estimated cume through Thursday is $1.005B worldwide with $333M from domestic and $672M at the international box office.

The Jon Watts-directed sequel that picks up after the events of Avengers: Endgame, is Sony’s second-highest global grosser of all time, coming in ahead of Jumanji: Welcome To The Jungle ($963M) and just below Skyfall ($1.109B), which it may very well pass.

Well-reviewed, sporting an Endgame halo and swinging in after a series of underperformers when it bowed in early July, FFH’s top offshore market is China where it crossed $200M last weekend. The cume there is now $204M.

Rounding out the Top 5 overseas hubs are Korea ($56M), the UK ($36M), Mexico ($30M) and Japan ($26M); all are estimates through today.

The Tom Holland-starrer began its international run in China, Japan and Hong Kong on June 28. At the time, it stuck an early $111M at the international box office.

The next week, rollout began domestically and most of the rest of overseas. In North America, where Sony had strategically moved Far From Home from its July 5 opening to July 2 in order to gain some power heading into Independence Day, the 6-day bow was a record $185M.

Internationally that week, FFH shattered Sony’s all-time opening records in 35 markets including Korea, Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, India, Indonesia, Taiwan and Vietnam. Through its first 10 days, the movie had grossed $580M

Then on July 14, FFH bested 2007’s Spider-Man 3 to become the top overseas grosser of the franchise.

Domestically, it will next catch Spider-Man: Homecoming ($334.2M) and Spider-Man 3 ($336.5M) to become the 3rd biggest webslinger movie in North America behind Sam Raimi’s 2002 Spider-Man and his 2004 Spider-Man 2.

Elsewhere, media reports that FFH hitting the $1B milestone would see film rights to the character revert to Marvel are entirely false, Deadline has confirmed.

I hadn't heard about this rumor that the rights would revert, but glad Deadline set the story straight. My understanding is that as long as Sony has a Spider-Man movie every few years, they'll never lose the rights.

[JKtheMac]

I hadn't heard about this rumor that the rights would revert, but glad Deadline set the story straight. My understanding is that as long as Sony has a Spider-Man movie every few years, they'll never lose the rights.

It was more than a rumour but it was spun badly by the press. What was being claimed, and I suspect it was true, was that Sony had written into the contract that if this movie didn’t do significantly well enough and the arrangement looked like it was not working they could back out of it before a third movie. Apparently the criteria by which they agreed was if this movie made 1Billion.

Now bear in mind this would have been written into the contract quite some time ago. Before Marvel handed Sony the money to finance Homecoming. At that time it was a big unknown. It wasn’t a huge gamble but who knows. Everyone kept saying the superhero bubble would burst. Some thought adding a new studio into the mix might be that moment.

It is patently obvious from the script of Far From Home and the way it ended that by the time they made this movie Sony were not looking for a way to back out of the deal. Everything has gone well since they shook hands. But apparently the clause was in effect and it could have been an option.

We will probably never see the document and the powers that be are probably wise to deny it, but my bet is this was in the contract but nobody was going to act on it.

One thing it probably does confirm, which I have always suspected but never had final confirmation of, is that Marvel only financed Homecoming. That the profits from the ongoing series were expected to maintain the rest of the movies. Such a clause wouldn’t be needed if Marvel were going to hand over the cash for each movie.

(Marvel gave the money to Sony to make Homecoming, and there was a clause that if it made a high enough profit Sony would give that back in the form of a bonus. Some claim that bonus is due on each movie but I suspect it was just a one time deal to give both sides incentive to make a hit movie and leave enough money left over to finance Far From Home. The other two financial parts of the deal, the payment for production input and the payment for the merchandising rights are artificially set at the amount it cost to finance the move. It’s all been put together so minimal money actually changes hands in the real world.)

[JKtheMac]

Actually since that time Batman has gotten a lot closer to Spider-Man in merchandise sales, in 2017 Spider-Man sold $1.402B worth of merch and Batman sold $1.024B. Also in their franchises respective histories Spider-Man has sold $14.805B of merchandise to Batman's $20.202B. Yes the Batman franchise is 23 years older, but the Superman franchise is a year older and has sold $5.381B of merchandise.

Info from Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...anchises#Notes

Hmm. Those sources in the article need some closer examination. There is no logical reason why Batman would have suddenly closed the gap. (Not that there needs to be one of course.) When I get a chance I will take a closer look. Thanks for the lead.

[TheDarman]

Yes, Spider-Man FFH has crossed $1 billion even if it's not reflected at Box Office Mojo just yet. Mojo is typically a day or two behind.

Basically, it only took Far From Home 24 days to hit a billion.

Here's the article from Deadline.com

https://deadline.com/2019/07/spider-...el-1202653689/

Basically speaking, it is pacing alongside Captain Marvel, in spite of opening mid-week. It is pacing behind it domestically, though it is still possible that Far From Home crosses the $400 million mark domestic. Meanwhile, it is pacing ahead internationally and will probably be just over/under Captain Marvel’s international cumulative gross by Hobbs & Shaw’s release next week. Depending on how much that cuts into its legs (The Lion King seems to be more of a domestic powerhouse rather than an international one), we could see Far From Home come up short of Captain Marvel’s total gross. But I’d guess that the international market can still come up with an additional $25 million past that point to give Far From Home the edge it needs to cross Captain Marvel to be the biggest solo superhero film of the year.

If there is a lesson to be learned here, it is that Sony should be more clever with its distribution duties and set better release dates. If it was in Hobbs & Shaw’s position, for example, it would’ve been the last big action movie of the summer and legged out against no real competition. Instead, they sandwiched it between Toy Story 4 and The Lion King, with Hobbs & Shaw taking the last real demographic advantage it would have against those films. I mean, Aquaman, a film received with more mediocrity and a lower CinemaScore will probably still outgross Far From Home, because Sony released it in a period where it could be more of a death by a thousand paper cuts. My hope is that they move Far From Home’s sequel to some place that it would be less demographically challenged. Though, with the way 2021 is shaping up, that may be difficult. Heck, Sony can’t even release the sequel in the July 4th weekend slot given The Batman is scheduled just a week prior for the June 25th slot.

[Immortal Weapon]

Basically speaking, it is pacing alongside Captain Marvel, in spite of opening mid-week. It is pacing behind it domestically, though it is still possible that Far From Home crosses the $400 million mark domestic. Meanwhile, it is pacing ahead internationally and will probably be just over/under Captain Marvel’s international cumulative gross by Hobbs & Shaw’s release next week. Depending on how much that cuts into its legs (The Lion King seems to be more of a domestic powerhouse rather than an international one), we could see Far From Home come up short of Captain Marvel’s total gross. But I’d guess that the international market can still come up with an additional $25 million past that point to give Far From Home the edge it needs to cross Captain Marvel to be the biggest solo superhero film of the year.

If there is a lesson to be learned here, it is that Sony should be more clever with its distribution duties and set better release dates. If it was in Hobbs & Shaw’s position, for example, it would’ve been the last big action movie of the summer and legged out against no real competition. Instead, they sandwiched it between Toy Story 4 and The Lion King, with Hobbs & Shaw taking the last real demographic advantage it would have against those films. I mean, Aquaman, a film received with more mediocrity and a lower CinemaScore will probably still outgross Far From Home, because Sony released it in a period where it could be more of a death by a thousand paper cuts. My hope is that they move Far From Home’s sequel to some place that it would be less demographically challenged. Though, with the way 2021 is shaping up, that may be difficult. Heck, Sony can’t even release the sequel in the July 4th weekend slot given The Batman is scheduled just a week prior for the June 25th slot.

Sony can release a sequel on the 4th ofJuly. Marvel's brand is much bigger than DC. The last time DC tried to square up with a Marvel release they were the ones to back down.

[Comic-Reader Lad]

Sony can release a sequel on the 4th ofJuly. Marvel's brand is much bigger than DC. The last time DC tried to square up with a Marvel release they were the ones to back down.

Well, if Sony were to release a Spider-Man sequel on July 4, 2021, they'll announce it soon.

However, I disagree about your point about Warner/DC backing down from their July 4 date. It's true that Warner did change the date of BvS so as not to go up against Civil War, but now we're talking about a solo Batman movie. That's a whole different animal.

There hasn't been a solo Batman movie since 2012, so it will be 9 years without a Batman movie. I think there will be tons of pent-up demand for it, and Sony wouldn't go near that date if Batman claims it.

[Midvillian1322]

Hmm. Those sources in the article need some closer examination. There is no logical reason why Batman would have suddenly closed the gap. (Not that there needs to be one of course.) When I get a chance I will take a closer look. Thanks for the lead.

Let me know when you do. I dont have the time to dig into
It but I have seen nothing to suggest to me Batmans popularity has gone up the last few years but his merchandise sales have multiplied while Spidermans have stayed about the same. Not that it would shock me though I feel like Batman is the most popular superhero but Spiderman just does better with kids and most merchandise is clothes and toys for kids you would think.

[TheDarman]

Sony can release a sequel on the 4th ofJuly. Marvel's brand is much bigger than DC. The last time DC tried to square up with a Marvel release they were the ones to back down.

I doubt it. That would hurt both films and Warner Bros. staked out the date at CinemaCon. Sony understands that a good Batman movie, in the current international climate, could do gangbusters. At best, Spider-Man 3 sneaks past it by opening later and cutting the legs out from underneath The Batman. But neither film will do as well as it would’ve if they just made at least two weeks of space for the other.

Going back to Far From Home’s box office, it crossed the billion dollar mark on Day 24, without a fourth weekend. Captain Marvel crossed the billion dollar mark on Day 26, after its own fourth weekend. I would guess it is almost a forgone conclusion at this point that Far From Home will pass Captain Marvel. Of course, going into its FIFTH weekend, Captain Marvel had the modest performing Shazam hitting theaters. It’s main competition was Dumbo and Us before that. The Lion King isn’t underperforming like Dumbo (it looks like the former will pass the latter’s global gross DOMESTICALLY before next week). Us performed better than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood will, though the margin will be slimmer than the aforementioned blowout. And Hobbs & Shaw will be considered a massive disappointment if it performs like Shazam. If it doesn’t cross $1.128 billion to be the biggest non-team-up/ensemble film of the year, it’ll only have its release date to blame.

[DanMad1977]

Well, if Sony were to release a Spider-Man sequel on July 4, 2021, they'll announce it soon.

However, I disagree about your point about Warner/DC backing down from their July 4 date. It's true that Warner did change the date of BvS so as not to go up against Civil War, but now we're talking about a solo Batman movie. That's a whole different animal.

There hasn't been a solo Batman movie since 2012, so it will be 9 years without a Batman movie. I think there will be tons of pent-up demand for it, and Sony wouldn't go near that date if Batman claims it.

You would think that Batman vs Superman is the best and biggest DC has to offer. Two of the well known brands in comic history just has to get more money in then almost every other movie. So, a solo Batman movie isn't as big as Bats vs Supes...

My internal logic so far...

On the other side, It doesn't matter. Pitting to propertys against each other will hurt ticket sales...