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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Probably becuase they've been adapted into or referenced in media enough or put into seminal "iconic" stories that get reprinted constantly, but Flash isn't at that point as a franchise yet, I think.
    Yeah. Because they were incredibly important events for their respective franchises from the minute they happened. Events that are so big that there's a before and there's an after said event. That's why they've been adapted multiple times. Other franchises have them (including the Flash franchise), even if not that well known by the public yet. Think Hal Jordan becoming Parallax; Green Goblin killing Gwen Stacey; and, speaking of Flash, Barry Allen's death during Crisis, etc.

    I would say they're nowhere near as well-known as the Sirens. Silver Banshee (who hasn't been seen in years), Livewire (who is hardly ever used these days), and Granny Goodness are probably the most prominent in that list.

    Glider's fridging was undone by the New 52 so I don't think it matters anymore, especially when she's been a pretty prominent member of the Rogues as far as current continuity. She's on the team more consistently then I think Captain Boomerang has by this point.

    Magenta came back so I don't think it's that big a deal.
    Yeah, but I wouldn't say Glider's really done anything of note since her return. And Magenta hasn't really returned. She had one issue with Wally dealing with his out-of-place status in current continuity and then didn't make another appearance. Either way, though, she's Wally's villain and as long as Barry is the main Flash, I don't see her being important as a villain.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 05-18-2019 at 12:13 PM.

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adset View Post
    Sorely disappointed by the lack of respect for Cobalt Blue in Flash's rogues gallery.
    The less said about this dark chapter in the Flash mythos the better. The whole "evil twin never before known about" troupe was so lazy, but then to tie him to Barry's arch enemy just crossed the line from dumb to just moronic. This was Waid at his lowest when he had just totally run out of ideas and was sitting around watching Days of Our Lives or General Hospital and thought "well the evil twin works on these shows...."

    Cobaly Blue is best left forgotten on the trash heap of bad ideas never to be talked about again.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    The less said about this dark chapter in the Flash mythos the better. The whole "evil twin never before known about" troupe was so lazy, but then to tie him to Barry's arch enemy just crossed the line from dumb to just moronic. This was Waid at his lowest when he had just totally run out of ideas and was sitting around watching Days of Our Lives or General Hospital and thought "well the evil twin works on these shows...."

    Cobaly Blue is best left forgotten on the trash heap of bad ideas never to be talked about again.
    Oh, it was soap opera as sh*t, and I didn't care for the "evil twin brother" troupe at all. But even though I didn't care for the premise, I think Waid still executed it decently. It was far from his best arc but I don't think it was terrible. Getting to see the future Allens and Wests was something I really enjoyed at the time, and that helped make up for the awful premise of Blue.

    Cobalt Blue also went way overboard with the Thawnes and the Montague/Capulet drama, but I really liked the idea of that feud conceptually so I give it a pass.
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  4. #49
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I barely hear anyone talk about them, not as much as people talk about Batman's rogues anyway (I don't go to comic forums except this one and still pretty casual) so they're rated pretty well. I enjoy them enough.

  5. #50
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    I'd be very happy to NEVER see Cobalt Blue again.
    Chain Lightning was easily the weakest storyline Waid came up with during his run.
    That said, it was still good - just not up to par with what came before.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    I'd be very happy to NEVER see Cobalt Blue again.
    Chain Lightning was easily the weakest storyline Waid came up with during his run.
    That said, it was still good - just not up to par with what came before.
    Chain Lightning was amazing for everything besides Cobalt Blue. Even conceptually as a type of villain he's not inherently bad, but his entirely awful origin and motivation and the sudden inclusion of real magic into The Flash kind of makes him stick out like an ugly, sore thumb.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I really started enjoying them after Johns got his hands on them and added some additional depth to their character(s).

    I tend to like them best together as a group, where their personalities and relationships can play off one another - or when they bring another new rogue into the mix.
    Yeah, the classic Flash Rogues work well as a team, while still having discrete personalities of their own, while Batman's foes are mostly psychos that 'don't play well with others' and are inordinately fond of manipulations and mind-games, kind of blurring into each other, personality-wise, IMO.

    It helps for both groups that I love characters based around a single gimmick, whether it be Killer Moth or Mirror Master. (The JSA and Legion, two of my favorite hero groups had a lot of one-note specialist characters, often with a sort of pulp-y two-fisted adventurer vibe. Here's the blind dude with a blackout bomb. Here's the otherwise powerless girl who splits into three girls and gangs up on foes.)

    That said, I'm not a big fan of any of the reverse speedsters. Boring. I'd be fine with one of them, showing up sporadically, but the constant plethora of them just detracts from the Flashes special-ness, IMO, and I don't consider any of them (Zoom, Reverse Flash, Godspeed, whatever) to be 'Rogues,' saving that distinction for the classic Rogues (Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, Mirror Master, Abra Kadabra, Trickster, Heat Wave, Golden Glider, etc.) or other classic Flash foes like Grodd.
    Last edited by Sutekh; 05-19-2019 at 10:50 AM.

  8. #53
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    The attraction of the classic Flash stories was always seeing how Barry could figure out a new way to use his powers and his intellect to overcome some new, never before seen, obstacle that tripped him up. Having a rotating batting order of villains allowed that to happen. Whenever a rogue returned, he had figured out a new twist on his gimmick that should undermine the Scarlet Speedster.

    The other kind of Flash story I loved--and wished there were more of--was the type where Barry went into some other-wordly place, whether that be a speeded up dimension, slowed down dimension, a far future place, a distant past place, another world, another universe or a lost city. And there were villains for that, as well.
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  9. #54
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    That said, I'm not a big fan of any of the reverse speedsters. Boring. I'd be fine with one of them, showing up sporadically, but the constant plethora of them just detracts from the Flashes special-ness, IMO, and I don't consider any of them (Zoom, Reverse Flash, Godspeed, whatever) to be 'Rogues,' saving that distinction for the classic Rogues (Captain Cold, Weather Wizard, Mirror Master, Abra Kadabra, Trickster, Heat Wave, Golden Glider, etc.) or other classic Flash foes like Grodd.
    I dont dislike speedster villains, but I agree we have too many of them and most are underwhelming. Im not even very fond of Thawne.

    I did like Zolomon quite a bit. That dude had a great hook and was genuinely scary as hell. And I think the concept behind Savitar, of the speed-worshiping cult, was really badass and interesting too. But other than those two? I'm usually not very impressed. I dont even think Thawne is all that interesting. He's just a weird confusing time anomaly that hates Barry for a whole bunch of reasons.
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  10. #55
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dont dislike speedster villains, but I agree we have too many of them and most are underwhelming. Im not even very fond of Thawne.

    I did like Zolomon quite a bit. That dude had a great hook and was genuinely scary as hell. And I think the concept behind Savitar, of the speed-worshiping cult, was really badass and interesting too. But other than those two? I'm usually not very impressed. I dont even think Thawne is all that interesting. He's just a weird confusing time anomaly that hates Barry for a whole bunch of reasons.
    I think the Reverse-Flashes have their places as the opposite number of their respective Flash. Characters like Savitar are more one-and-done and I don't know they've quite figured out what to do with Godspeed.

  11. #56
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    I always looked at is it in which characters
    Have showcased and developed more
    Villains in there book (rogues)
    And for me it has always been Batman
    And Spider-Man with Fantastic Four
    And Superman having the really big
    Hitters; but few and than Flash
    Having a lot of flashy villains that
    Have gotten more screen time
    Compared to so many other villains
    In comics.
    So no I donít believe there fame is
    Over rated and considering the powers
    All Flash members have, I would
    Have to say there joking and silliness
    Cover some damn strong characters.

  12. #57
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
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    Just for the record, and so that my credibility here isnít shot to hell, that Cobalt Blue comment was a joke.

    That said ó and I may be flushing my credibility right back down the toilet ó I actually enjoyed Chain Lightning... as a concept. Iím right there with you all re: Malcom Thawne/crazy-long-lost-twin-brother, but I love the mid-90s Flash family to death and I liked the idea of a 1000 year-spanning feud with a rival family/villain. I found it entertaining, with the obvious black eye of the twin reveal just prior to it all starting marring what could have been a pretty great Waid saga.

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