The Flash's Rogues: Are They Overrated?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

A lot of people have compared the Flash's rogues to Batman's or at least have said that they are the second best collection of rogues in the DCU after Batman's. However, does everyone believe that to be a fair assessment. Of course there are some great Flash villains. I frankly like a lot of them. Captain Cold, Eobard Thawne, Hunter Zolomon, and Grodd are some of the better and more iconic villains in DC's roster of characters. I also have a soft spot for Abra Kadabra (mostly cuz he popped up a lot in Mark Waid's Flash run).

HOWEVER, as a collection of villains, do you really believe them to be as good as people make them out to be? Or do you think they could stand for some new additions to round them out?

Personally, I like them, but I'm not sold on the "they're the best rogues since Batman's" mantra. I think when it comes to Flash's villains, there's one thing crucially missing: DIVERSITY.

For the longest time, it seems that, whenever writers want to craft a new villain for Barry or Wally or Bart, they simply make a new speedster character, whether that was Reverse Flash or Zoom or Savitar or Inertia or Godspeed. Additionally, a lot of the Flash's rogues have historically depended on trick gadgets and specialized guns: Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, Captain Boomerang, Trickster, Heatwave, Pied Piper, Golden Glider, Chillblaine, etc. I'm not knocking those guys, but the commonality of those two things makes it seem like most of the main Flash villains fall into two main camps: speedsters and guys with cool toys...and then there's Grodd.

[Celgress]

Other than Reverse Flash or Dr. Zoom and Grodd I often forget about his adversaries so yes, IMO, most of them are overrated.

[Frontier]

A lot of people have compared the Flash's rogues to Batman's or at least have said that they are the second best collection of rogues in the DCU after Batman's. However, does everyone believe that to be a fair assessment. Of course there are some great Flash villains. I frankly like a lot of them. Captain Cold, Eobard Thawne, Hunter Zolomon, and Grodd are some of the better and more iconic villains in DC's roster of characters. I also have a soft spot for Abra Kadabra (mostly cuz he popped up a lot in Mark Waid's Flash run).

HOWEVER, as a collection of villains, do you really believe them to be as good as people make them out to be? Or do you think they could stand for some new additions to round them out?

Personally, I like them, but I'm not sold on the "they're the best rogues since Batman's" mantra. I think when it comes to Flash's villains, there's one thing crucially missing: DIVERSITY.

For the longest time, it seems that, whenever writers want to craft a new villain for Barry or Wally or Bart, they simply make a new speedster character, whether that was Reverse Flash or Zoom or Savitar or Inertia or Godspeed. Additionally, a lot of the Flash's rogues have historically depended on trick gadgets and specialized guns: Captain Cold, Mirror Master, Weather Wizard, Captain Boomerang, Trickster, Heatwave, Pied Piper, Golden Glider, Chillblaine, etc. I'm not knocking those guys, but the commonality of those two things makes it seem like most of the main Flash villains fall into two main camps: speedsters and guys with cool toys...and then there's Grodd.

I mean, most of Batman's villains run on gimmicks until you go into the nitty gritty of their psychosis' and why they do what they do which writers like Johns have really gone into.

And even then I think most of the tech The Rogues' all use are pretty diverse and unique in their own right.

[9th.]

I'd consider Flash Rogues diverse I mean Reverse Flash, Grodd, Mirror Master, Cap Cold, Weather Wizard... They're all pretty different

[jetengine]

Batman has 3+ rogues who are LITERALLY "Mobster with gimmick". Yes Flashs rogues are diverse enough.

[Elmo]

Other than Reverse Flash or Dr. Zoom and Grodd I often forget about his adversaries so yes, IMO, most of them are overrated.

wouldn't that make them underrated?

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I mean, most of Batman's villains run on gimmicks until you go into the nitty gritty of their psychosis' and why they do what they do which writers like Johns have really gone into.

It's not the use of gimmicks that I'm talking about. Yes, Batman's villains use gimmicks, most comic book villains do. However, I'd say that the difference is that all of Batman's villains fulfill a different niche or character archetype, in terms of both power-set and backstory. In fact, its a pattern that kind of holds true for the three main rogues galleries that I've noticed: Batman's, Spider-Man's, and Superman's. For Batman, it breaks down like this:

Ra's al Ghul is the machiavellian, calculating mastermind with almost unlimited resources
Joker is the cackling madman
Clayface is the shapeshifter
Man-Bat is the man-who-becomes-a-monster
Two-Face is the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality
Bane is the big bruiser with the big debut
Poison Ivy is a femme fatale and an eco-terrorist
Catwoman is the elusive cat-burglar and also a bit of a femme fatale
Penguin is the unattractive mob boss
Hugo Strange is the mad scientist

A lot of Superman and Spider-Man villains also fit into those same archetypes.

[DragonsChi]

Flash's Rogues are dangerous because a lot of them are willing to operate together as a unit to achieve a single goal. And doing so without stabbing each other in the back.


I wouldn't say they are overrated. Just different. They work for the Flash.

[byrd156]

Flash has a really solid Rogue's Gallery, like the 3rd in comics. Very solid and not overrated at all, if anything I feel they are pretty underrated. OUtside of Zoom, Grodd and Boomerang in SS they don't seem to do a lot in the greater DCU.

[Frontier]

It's not the use of gimmicks that I'm talking about. Yes, Batman's villains use gimmicks, most comic book villains do. However, I'd say that the difference is that all of Batman's villains fulfill a different niche or character archetype, in terms of both power-set and backstory. In fact, its a pattern that kind of holds true for the three main rogues galleries that I've noticed: Batman's, Spider-Man's, and Superman's. For Batman, it breaks down like this:

Ra's al Ghul is the machiavellian, calculating mastermind with almost unlimited resources
Joker is the cackling madman
Clayface is the shapeshifter
Man-Bat is the man-who-becomes-a-monster
Two-Face is the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality
Bane is the big bruiser with the big debut
Poison Ivy is a femme fatale and an eco-terrorist
Catwoman is the elusive cat-burglar and also a bit of a femme fatale
Penguin is the unattractive mob boss
Hugo Strange is the mad scientist

A lot of Superman and Spider-Man villains also fit into those same archetypes.

I think you could probably say the same for Flash's Rogues.

Reverse-Flash is the obsessive and spiteful Speedster who is everything the Flash isn't.
Captain Cold is the professional crook with a code.
Grodd is the tyrannical and overpowering ape-villain.
Heatwave is a tragic pyromaniac.
Pied Piper is the genius but emotionally complex Rogue who went straight.
Mirror Master is either a showman (Scudder) or a casual contract killer/crook (McCulloch).
Weather Wizard has a god complex and a brother complex.
Golden Glider is the skating ingenue turned criminal because of her brother.
Trickster is either a young upstart prankster (Axel) or a prankster who dreams of being bigger (Jesse)
Dr. Alchemy is Dr. Jeklly and Mr. Hyde with a science bent.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I think you could probably say the same for Flash's Rogues.

Reverse-Flash is the obsessive and spiteful Speedster who is everything the Flash isn't.
Captain Cold is the professional crook with a code.
Grodd is the tyrannical and overpowering ape-villain.
Heatwave is a tragic pyromaniac.
Pied Piper is the genius but emotionally complex Rogue who went straight.
Mirror Master is either a showman (Scudder) or a casual contract killer/crook (McCulloch).
Weather Wizard has a god complex and a brother complex.
Golden Glider is the skating ingenue turned criminal because of her brother.
Trickster is either a young upstart prankster (Axel) or a prankster who dreams of being bigger (Jesse)
Dr. Alchemy is Dr. Jeklly and Mr. Hyde with a science bent.

Yeah, but Batman's rogue gallery not only has a diversity of character backgrounds, but also a diversity of MOs and aesthetics. Same thing for Spider-Man's and Superman's. You wouldn't get Bane confused with Penguin, but honestly with just a change of color scheme, and you could easily confuse Heatwave for Mirror Master.

[WonderScott]

I really started enjoying them after Johns got his hands on them and added some additional depth to their character(s).

I tend to like them best together as a group, where their personalities and relationships can play off one another - or when they bring another new rogue into the mix.

[Elmo]

Yeah, but Batman's rogue gallery not only has a diversity of character backgrounds, but also a diversity of MOs and aesthetics. Same thing for Spider-Man's and Superman's. You wouldn't get Bane confused with Penguin, but honestly with just a change of color scheme, and you could easily confuse Heatwave for Mirror Master.

You don't know that for sure. If Flash and his rogues were as well known as Batman and his rogues, there would be no question. People who read Flash comics and know the characters won't confuse them because they are integral characters who have been fleshed out just as much as Batman's rogues, and in most cases in less expected ways. this confusion you're talking about simply does not happen to Flash readers. in fact, I would say most of the development with Flash's rogues have uniquely side-stepped normal villain tropes over the years

[Ascended]

There's tons of overlap here though.

Ra's al Ghul is the machiavellian, calculating mastermind with almost unlimited resources

Much like the Court of Owls. Or even Bane, in certain stories (he's manipulating all kinds of people right now, right?)

Joker is the cackling madman

So is Riddler, and probably several other foes I'm not thinking of.

Man-Bat is the man-who-becomes-a-monster
Two-Face is the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality

This is largely the same thing.

Bane is the big bruiser with the big debut

And Croc, KGBeast, Clayface, etc., are all also big bruisers who rely on size and raw strength.

Poison Ivy is a femme fatale and an eco-terrorist

An eco-terrorist just like Ra's, and a femme fatale just like Selina and friggin Roxy Rocket

Penguin is the unattractive mob boss

Just like Black Mask.

A lot of Superman and Spider-Man villains also fit into those same archetypes.

This is very true. You're going to find a lot of overlap and repeated archetypes in any rogues gallery, because the archetypes that mix well get recycled for new villains. But I dont think there's any more diversity in Batman's villains than there are in Barry's. I think the Arkham crowd has had a little more effort put into exploring their various psychosis, but there's tons and tons of overlap wherever you look.

I think Flash's rogues get a little undervalued, if anything.

[Ascended]

with just a change of color scheme, and you could easily confuse Heatwave for Mirror Master.

Except for their different powersets, motivations, personalities, and addictions.

They're about as similar as Joker and Riddler; which is to say that aside from some very basic and general similarities they're actually quite different.