The Heroes in Crisis Semi-Appreciation Thread *Spoilers aplenty!*

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Heroes in Crisis is a big swing. Tom King takes big swings and he's a highly divisive writer as a result. You're either going to really dig what he's doing or think it's pretentious twaddle. Sometimes, both at the same time.

Not liking Tom King's Heroes in Crisis is totally understandable. Its very subject matter was going to be challenging, and difficult and controversial. Pour on to that fire DC's inability to do anything worthwhile with Wally West since Infinite Crisis and you've got a recipe for disaster.

If Heroes in Crisis is not your cup of tea, if you dislike it, or plain out hate it, we hear you. You can vent your criticisms, outrage and disgust on the many, many other Heroes in Crisis threads out there. No one wants to censor you and diminish your feelings or antipathy towards this story.

This thread will not be about that. It will be for people who have been enjoying Heroes in Crisis, despite having some reservations about it. This isn't an "Everything is Awesome" thread. This is a place for people who genuinely enjoy what Heroes in Crisis is trying to do, even if we may have serious problems with it.

I understand that may be complicated for some to wrap your mind around because it's not a binary choice. To like something, but still have issues with it. I have complicated feelings towards Star Wars, but I still love Star Wars. I have complicated feelings about Superman, but he's still my favorite fictional character of all time. I have issues with chunks of Hal Jordan's publishing history, but he's still my favorite superhero.

I have really been enjoying Heroes in Crisis. I love the more scatter-brained Booster that's more like the overtly comedic Booster from the JLU and JLAction. I thought Harley's rhyming was stupid and was delighted that King made fun of it in the last issue. I love the humor of this book. I love that it's gotten Blue & Gold back together and is using virtually the entire history of the DCU without trying to explain the how or why. I am uneasy about whether or not Wally West will get the appropriate closure with either his family or himself. I don't think making Wally a guy who accidentally murdered his friends is a very interesting direction to take him in, so if the final issue doesn't provide a satisfactory explanation for all this, the entire story might be tainted for me. I hope it won't. I hope Tom King's big swing pays off big like it did in Mister Miracle.

This is a semi-appreciation thread. If you are enjoying Heroes in Crisis, this is the thread for you. If you aren't, I ask that you please ignore us and leave us alone to discuss a story we like without having to get derailed defending the very premise, DC Editorial's failures, or Tom King's competency as a writer. If those topics come up, that's fine as long as you are approaching from a place of appreciation for what Heroes in Crisis is trying to do, even if it may or may not have always been successful in the process.

If you are confused by who or what this thread is for, this thread isn't for you. If this thread's very existence makes you angry, this thread isn't for you. If you like Heroes in Crisis, this a place for you to discuss its successes, failures, and missed opportunities with fans who feel likewise.

Thank you for your understanding and I wish you all well.

Spoilers for all published issues are fair game without spoiler tags. If anything leaks early again, please use spoiler tags though.

[Franny6422]

LOL semi-appreciation, gets me. Let the discussion commence. I personally can't make my mind up about 'HiC' though love it's boldness. Can understand the resentment though that some people express over what could be termed 'character assassination of Wally West. Wonder what the reception would had been like if King choose another speedster, the story beats would had been more or less the same without this backlash. Curious about final issue, redemption? Revelations? Pleased the story was given more room to breathe what with the added issues to the initial planned run. One thing' did Wally desecrate Steel' body and shove those joke teeth down the throat? Oh' dear. Not good' Wally.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

LOL semi-appreciation, gets me. Let the discussion commence. I personally can't make my mind up about 'HiC' though love it's boldness. Can understand the resentment though that some people express over what could be termed 'character assassination of Wally West. Wonder what the reception would had been like if King choose another speedster, the story beats would had been more or less the same without this backlash. Curious about final issue, redemption? Revelations? Pleased the story was given more room to breathe what with the added issues to the initial planned run. One thing' did Wally desecrate Steel' body and shove those joke teeth down the throat? Oh' dear. Not good' Wally.

I think Heroes in Crisis could have worked with Barry instead of Wally if they'd set it up properly by eliminating Iris and all the future generations of children they produced, but probably not as well because it would risk feeling like a retread of Flashpoint and we never really got to see Barry & Iris being parents to their kids like we did with Wally & Linda.

Bart Allen could have been an interesting choice, given his more impulsive nature being linked so intrinsically to time travel, but, again, not sure if the pathos would have hit home as hard.

Jesse Quick would have been real interesting because her father, mother, and virtually all her friends had been wiped from history, including herself.

[G-Man27]

Imo, having Barry be the culprit would be even worse as that would affect Barry's fans (and yes, he does have fans) and would also affect the Justice League title and would have more of a domino affect on the DC Universe than we have now. Bart might not be a bad choice though, same as not having a speedster at all lol

I actually enjoyed the story, and depending on how the finale works out am looking forward to the aftermath

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

So count me in on someone who is "enjoying this ride despite having reservations" as you say. I don't necessarily think this is a story that needed to be told, but for the most part Tom King is telling it well enough. But I don't know what I think about the idea behind this thread. Especially when it's leaning to be exclusively for people who don't hate it but don't love it. That's a pretty specific premise. So should the other threads just turn into unapologetic hate threads? Isn't part of the point of having these discussion forums to communicate with differing opinions?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

So count me in on someone who is "enjoying this ride despite having reservations" as you say. I don't necessarily think this is a story that needed to be told, but for the most part Tom King is telling it well enough. But I don't know what I think about the idea behind this thread. Especially when it's leaning to be exclusively for people who don't hate it but don't love it. That's a pretty specific premise. So should the other threads just turn into unapologetic hate threads? Isn't part of the point of having these discussion forums to communicate with differing opinions?

The thread is for everyone who doesn't hate it. You can love it, or love some of it while disliking other parts of it. All we're doing is keeping the discussion between readers who actually want to read the book because they're enjoying it without getting derailed by people who disagree with the very premise of the story. That still leaves a lot of differing opinions, it just leaves out those whose opinions are that the story is not even worth publishing.

The other threads are for everyone who loves it, hates it and everyone in between. If you want to debate the merits of the story with readers who loath HiC, think PTSD is completely inappropriate subject matter for superhero comics, and that Tom King is a hack, that's where you can do so with a much broader spectrum of differing opinions.

In simpler terms, we want to discuss and critique Star Wars with other Star Wars fans, just not with people who think Star Wars sucks and are terribly written. Now, replace "Star Wars" with "Heroes in Crisis" and that's what this thread is. I hope that helps.

[BatmanJones]

So count me in on someone who is "enjoying this ride despite having reservations" as you say. I don't necessarily think this is a story that needed to be told, but for the most part Tom King is telling it well enough. But I don't know what I think about the idea behind this thread. Especially when it's leaning to be exclusively for people who don't hate it but don't love it. That's a pretty specific premise. So should the other threads just turn into unapologetic hate threads? Isn't part of the point of having these discussion forums to communicate with differing opinions?

"Turn into unapologetic hate threads?" They've been that since #1 hit the stands. There are tons of "appreciation" threads on this board and they're called that for a reason. Thank Yahweh for the Tom King Batman appreciation thread. Otherwise it's no fun for a fan of that series to visit the Batman forum at all.

[numberthirty]

"Turn into unapologetic hate threads?" They've been that since #1 hit the stands. There are tons of "appreciation" threads on this board and they're called that for a reason. Thank Yahweh for the Tom King Batman appreciation thread. Otherwise it's no fun for a fan of that series to visit the Batman forum at all.

I'd tend to agree.

While I'm all for differing opinions, there's a line between different opinions and the turn that some threads wind up taking. The first one's fine. The second one? Not so much.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'd tend to agree.

While I'm all for differing opinions, there's a line between different opinions and the turn that some threads wind up taking. The first one's fine. The second one? Not so much.

Focusing on the negative is perfectly natural. It's a defense mechanism that kept humans alive for tens of thousands of years. However, focusing on the negative when it comes to the entertainment we consume for enjoyment seems like a waste of effort to me, but to each his own.

I like Heroes in Crisis because it's tackling stuff that King knows full well is going to piss people off, but he's doing it anyway, not because he derives some sadistic pleasure from twisting the knife on his reader, but because he genuinely thinks that putting these characters in difficult situations is how that become stronger. Great drama doesn't come from everything going great for our heroes, but seeing them overcome great adversity. There's a reason the symbol for drama is this:
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This is why I'm both enjoying the journey, but also fearful of whether or not King can pull it off. He's put Wally West in a morally impossible scenario and I don't know if I have the confidence that this can be done in a way that leaves the character in a better place, either by giving him a good death or by giving him a more hopeful new direction that other creators can use to give Wally a new role that suits a character this wonderful. Maybe King's bag of tricks isn't as deep as I've given him credit for and we're going to get a rehash of Mister Miracle's ending that leaves it up to the readers (which I loved, but would not be satisfying with HiC).

Our passion and love for these characters is what keeps vast imaginary worlds like the DCU alive, but that love can easily curdle into hate and resentment. I don't want to do that, so I've chosen to be optimistic because I honestly think that's what King will embrace in the end. He's a man who's seen horrible, horrible things in his life, which deeply scarred him emotionally, but he's also a man who loves his family, his life, his job, and he loves Wally West. He may drag him through horrors, but I can't believe that he'll leave him there.

Which is why I am so convinced that Nemesis is somehow behind this. Tom Tresser's whole life has left him morally and emotionally compromised. He's the perfect character to be manipulating this. Maybe I'm wrong, but he's the only one that fits what we've seen so far.

And, if I'm wrong. So be it.

[Raijin]

I'm not a Wally fan by any means. But it kinda bothers me when people say that he murdered people. All i got from the latest issue is that Wally made a mistake, it was an accident really and he's just trying to right his wrongs. I don't really see him as a murderer though.

[jetengine]

I'm not a Wally fan by any means. But it kinda bothers me when people say that he murdered people. All i got from the latest issue is that Wally made a mistake, it was an accident really and he's just trying to right his wrongs. I don't really see him as a murderer though.

Afaik its because he mutilated bodies and framed people etc. Theres also the legitimate question raised that Commander Steel SHOULD be tough enough to survive the lightnimg but Wally shoving the teeth in his throat killed him.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Afaik its because he mutilated bodies and framed people etc. Theres also the legitimate question raised that Commander Steel SHOULD be tough enough to survive the lightnimg but Wally shoving the teeth in his throat killed him.

Agreed. Legally, I suppose it would be criminally negligent manslaughter because of the attempts to cover up the crime. Either way though, these are not things a guy like Wally West should be involved with unless there's more to the story than we know.

[jetengine]

I cant remember but when they autopsied Commander Steel did they explicitly say the Teeth killed him ?

[Raijin]

Agreed. Legally, I suppose it would be criminally negligent manslaughter because of the attempts to cover up the crime. Either way though, these are not things a guy like Wally West should be involved with unless there's more to the story than we know.

I honestly think there's more to the story, especially with someone like King. Thank you for creating this thread. I get tired of negativity after a while.

[jetengine]

I honestly think there's more to the story, especially with someone like King. Thank you for creating this thread. I get tired of negativity after a while.

I'm not sure tbh. We've one issue left for him to stick the landing and I feel as if its going to be underwhelming either way. Its either....

1. Doctor Manhattens behind it all
2. They pull something out of nowhere
3. Wallys on the Suicide Squad

All of which are pretty disappointing. I mean you never know but I cant see a single issue somwhow making the last 8 better. At least imo.