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  1. #61
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    jordan d white have you read secret wars II #5 the first appearance of boom-boom and best comic book named secret wars

  2. #62
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    We can not count the intentions as what happened. Kieron could want the Extinction Team to end up in that but he never got to execute it.

    The only questionable thing they did during his comics was Magneto blackmailing Wolverine by X-Force and when they abandoned a battle with the Avengers to rescue Hope.

    And, you know, tell the story of how in Utopia they are becoming villains while at Wolverine's school he was directing X-Force and killing children...

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by AJpyro View Post
    Sorry I forgot to add more on that.

    I meant you should read the originating run for the idea of the character but a google search or even just the cover of their first issue should tell you what skin color they are. It shouldn't be that hard to have consistent coloring.
    Ah, thanks for clarifying. That's a good point, though the same risk applies on skin color for Google searches. Enough artists drawing a character the same way over time and all.
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  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    We can not count the intentions as what happened. Kieron could want the Extinction Team to end up in that but he never got to execute it.

    The only questionable thing they did during his comics was Magneto blackmailing Wolverine by X-Force and when they abandoned a battle with the Avengers to rescue Hope.

    And, you know, tell the story of how in Utopia they are becoming villains while at Wolverine's school he was directing X-Force and killing children...
    No one is saying that what Gillen wanted, happened. But it made a lot of sense it would happen

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    No one is saying that what Gillen wanted, happened. But it made a lot of sense it would happen
    Only if you take their "Scott is completely evil for vaguely unspecified reasons" narrative at face value.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  6. #66

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    AiPT!: What were your initial thoughts on secondary mutations like Emma’s and have they changed since you joined the X-Office?

    Jordan: I kind of hate them? I’ve said many times how much I enjoyed Morrison’s X-Men, but secondary mutations are one thing I wasn’t big on. They just seemed too unfocused and random. Sometimes they were just an amplification of the mutant’s regular powers (like Iceman being able to become ice instead of just covered by it) but other times, as with Emma, it seems completely random and unrelated.
    +1. I'll be a bit less diplomatic, in fact, and just say the whole "secondary mutation" concept always seemed like lazy writing to me. Can't make this story work with this character's power set? Alter the story or choose a different character.

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  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduinel View Post
    +1. I'll be a bit less diplomatic, in fact, and just say the whole "secondary mutation" concept always seemed like lazy writing to me. Can't make this story work with this character's power set? Alter the story or choose a different character.
    Exactly what I thought. also you risk creating OP characters

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Only if you take their "Scott is completely evil for vaguely unspecified reasons" narrative at face value.
    That wasn't going to be Gillen conclusion.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Exactly what I thought. also you risk creating OP characters



    That wasn't going to be Gillen conclusion.
    Except none of the three outcomes make any kind of narrative sense. Scott being good and Emma being evil only works if you completely ignore all X-Men books since 1990 and assume the one person who was at his side from Whedon onward would betray him for no reason. Scott being evil and Emma being evil was the choice they went with and it made zero sense. Scott being evil and Emma being good makes possibly the least sense.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anduinel View Post
    +1. I'll be a bit less diplomatic, in fact, and just say the whole "secondary mutation" concept always seemed like lazy writing to me. Can't make this story work with this character's power set? Alter the story or choose a different character.
    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Exactly what I thought. also you risk creating OP characters
    I'm a bit indifferent on the concept (in fact, I've suggested Lorna maybe getting one before), but in practical terms, it also runs the risk of robbing other characters of opportunities. Instead of using Colossus in this scene cause he's indestructible, we have Emma with a diamond form, for example.
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  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I'm a bit indifferent on the concept (in fact, I've suggested Lorna maybe getting one before), but in practical terms, it also runs the risk of robbing other characters of opportunities. Instead of using Colossus in this scene cause he's indestructible, we have Emma with a diamond form, for example.
    Morrison created the diamond form for Emma because he couldn't use Colossus that was dead at the time. Funny that he returned less than a year after Morrison run concluded.

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Except none of the three outcomes make any kind of narrative sense. Scott being good and Emma being evil only works if you completely ignore all X-Men books since 1990 and assume the one person who was at his side from Whedon onward would betray him for no reason. Scott being evil and Emma being evil was the choice they went with and it made zero sense. Scott being evil and Emma being good makes possibly the least sense.
    The choice was Scott going almost evil but he couldn't get full villain but Emma could.

    Sure we will never know the full context on it, but I really think Emma would never let Scott or anyobe interfere on what she thinks is the right think to do.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Except none of the three outcomes make any kind of narrative sense. Scott being good and Emma being evil only works if you completely ignore all X-Men books since 1990 and assume the one person who was at his side from Whedon onward would betray him for no reason. Scott being evil and Emma being evil was the choice they went with and it made zero sense. Scott being evil and Emma being good makes possibly the least sense.
    It doesn't make sense. It was a way of reversing everything to status quo, just with a few different pieces (illusion of change). Remember at the same time they were setting Wolverine as the new Xavier living in the school, the idea was to make Scott the new Magneto, and Emma was going to be a villain again, but apart from him.

    That's why Gillen was insisting on Namor triangle non-sense, which was first introduced as Fraction as a shameless attempt to copy Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine and Reed/Sue/Namor, but with him it was clear it wasn't going nowhere (remember he had Emma manipulate Namor into thinking Shaw was dead while he was in a cell in Utopia, clearly a time-bomb if there ever was one, which Gillen ignored), Namor was going to be an excuse for Scott and Emma to break up and Emma go full evil.

    Also keep in mind remember that Gillen is just not good at writing straight white males, at least in superhero comics (Kid Loki was just too young, and even then more of a panssexual than straight, if you go by mythology), that's one of the reasons his Iron Man was perhaps the worst run the character ever had in decades. Ironically, I think he wrote a good Cyclops, but that was by accident, since he intended to destroy him eventually. It's curious that I like his run and set-up overall, but only because some of his plans were thwarted by crossovers and editorial oversight in general (just like late Claremont in his first run).
    Last edited by Omega Alpha; 05-13-2019 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    It doesn't make sense. It was a way of reversing everything to status quo, just with a few different pieces (illusion of change). Remember at the same time they were setting Wolverine as the new Xavier living in the school, the idea was to make Scott the new Magneto, and Emma was going to be a villain again, but apart from him.

    That's why Gillen was insisting on Namor triangle non-sense, which was first introduced as Fraction as a shameless attempt to copy Cyclops/Jean/Wolverine and Reed/Sue/Namor, but with him it was clear it wasn't going nowhere (remember he had Emma manipulate Namor into thinking Shaw was dead while he was in a cell in Utopia, clearly a time-bomb if there ever was one, which Gillen ignored), Namor was going to be an excuse for Scott and Emma to break up and Emma go full evil.

    Also keep in mind remember that Gillen is just not good at writing straight white males, at least in superhero comics (Kid Loki was just too young, and even then more of a panssexual than straight, if you go by mythology), that's one of the reasons his Iron Man was perhaps the worst run the character ever had in decades. Ironically, I think he wrote a good Cyclops, but that was by accident, since he intended to destroy him eventually. It's curious that I like his run and set-up overall, but only because some of his plans were thwarted by crossovers and editorial oversight in general (just like late Claremont in his first run).
    Emma just went full villain on x-men blue and IvX. Kieron Gillen was right

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Emma just went full villain on x-men blue and IvX. Kieron Gillen was right
    You could even make Spider-Man into a mass murderer. Doesn't mean it's right or makes sense.

  15. #75
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Emma just went full villain on x-men blue and IvX. Kieron Gillen was right
    Bishop shot Charles in the face and murdered billions. Jean killed over a billion sentient beings.

    That is the game right? Naming extreme character assassinations that make zero sense?
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

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