How would you tweak DC characters you think are too similar?

[scary harpy]

Don't tweak them. Just get rid of them. No matter how much you tweak them, people are always going to have their minds made up about which character is lesser and who is not. Hal, Kyle, Guy, Simon are pretty much the same character to me. Vic Sage is useless when you have someone like Batman. Mia and Stephanie can change costumes and no one would notice.

This can best be accomplished by a hard reboot...that is long overdue.

Some characters will not return. Truly sad...but I have to guess they were not needed.

[Jon Clark]

And having characters used across the DCU only makes it worse.

You can develop a distinct version of Barry as the Flash and a distinct version of Wally as the Flash, but if the only people who use them are the Flash writers, it fails. As soon as you get Bendis having Superman cameos where Barry sounds and acts different or a TV show where Barry is given Wally's traits that the writers want to use … well back to the drawing board. Heck, it will even happen when the guy who creates that unique Barry voice leaves and the next guy to take over the book starts pulling in ideas from other speedsters he's read to flesh out his run.

And it is worse when supporting characters like Etta get used just because the writer needs a quick "government official" and mistakes Etta for Waller and/or just gives either the same generic "government lackey" characterization.

The only way to avoid it is to have a smaller line of titles overseen by someone with the authority to enforce strict adherence to characterization. And DC hasn't had one of those in decades.

[godisawesome]

Since I'm of the opinion that expansion is good and "house cleaning and consolidation" is ultimately a lost cause and a waste of potential and momentum, I think I'll start off by expanding on this point:

And having characters used across the DCU only makes it worse.

You can develop a distinct version of Barry as the Flash and a distinct version of Wally as the Flash, but if the only people who use them are the Flash writers, it fails. As soon as you get Bendis having Superman cameos where Barry sounds and acts different or a TV show where Barry is given Wally's traits that the writers want to use … well back to the drawing board. Heck, it will even happen when the guy who creates that unique Barry voice leaves and the next guy to take over the book starts pulling in ideas from other speedsters he's read to flesh out his run.

And it is worse when supporting characters like Etta get used just because the writer needs a quick "government official" and mistakes Etta for Waller and/or just gives either the same generic "government lackey" characterization.

The only way to avoid it is to have a smaller line of titles overseen by someone with the authority to enforce strict adherence to characterization. And DC hasn't had one of those in decades.

To create that kind of authority, and to increase overall characterization and story quality, do 2 things:

- Focus on building up a reservoir and bullpen of writers over artists; while artists sell books *now,* writers make sure books *keep* selling, and are generally more dependable as the foundation for books going forward, expanding, or having spin-offs. Part of the reason the Batman books continue to be the most dependable money-maker is because they tend to have the best stable of writers overall, or luck into having the kind of utility writer who can tackle multiple books themselves.

- End year round monthlies for most properties, scaling the actual number of books that don't cease publication back to a handful that act as centerpiece books for the families of books. Instead, using your stable of writers, launch "seasons" of character based series where you encourage them to differentiate and exploit the very similar characters in overlapping series.

Sooo... imagine having a great writer who tackles, say, Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and Tim Drake in three overlapping but interrupted series. Good enough writers could differentiate those characters and make magic, like Chuck Dixon, so the idea here is to try and encourage that kind of development, and organic crossovers by giving one person the responsibility for the various characters and, more importantly, giving them the time to develop those stories without being overworked. I mean, the only thing you really need to differentiate similar characters: a writer who can entertainingly differentiate them.

BUT! if you want more specific breakdowns...

- Barry vs Wally: If DC is so dead set on making Barry the "Classic, Status Quo Friendly Flash," then just treat Wally as the opposite. Where Barry is the single, somewhat bland archetypal speedster stationed in a single city with a more run-of-the-mill status quo, Wally *is* married, raising his kids, more crazy in his speedster powers... and constantly traveling through places, times, dimensions to keep ahead of whatever cosmic retcon is trying to destroy him or his family right now; that's actually why the Wally in the current timeline is from the future, since he went back in time with his kids as a kind of "time travel refugee." Just go ahead and whole-heartedly embrace the meta-narrative that someone wants Wally and his family gone, and make that the actual narrative; heck, even the concept alone can be fun if Barry is talking to his biologically older sidekick who has fuzzy memories because of how time keeps changing.

- Green Lanterns: This one actually is pretty easy. They're space cops, so just give them different responsibilities and MO. They've already been proven successful at differentiation, similar to the Robins at various points in times, so writing quality is probably the main key in actually keeping them different.

-Robins: See Green Lanterns, but with even more differentiation, because Nightwing has a spy network thing going on, Red Hood is the bloody vigilante, Red Robin is a guy torn between his control freak tendencies and his natural skill at being a Gotham style action hero.

-Batgirls: Again, it's really not hard to see how different these characters are, but if you want a major difference between Babs and Steph, Steph can be more stealth-based, befitting being a spoiler.

- Huntress (Bertinelli) vs Huntress (Wayne)/Powergirl vs Supergirl: Again, pretty easy if you take note of the established difference between the characters and lean into it. You can use dimensional travel, time travel, whatever, provided you want to use those characters in the same book or at the same time.

- The similar villains in the Batman Rogues Gallery: Okay, not going to lie, this one's a personal story idea I have. It turns out that the reason why there's so many duplicate villains at Arkham is because Hugo Strange intentionally tried to create his own versions of Batman's nemeses as "proof" of his idea that Batman creates his own. This is why some of the repeats are crazier or messed up: Strange's tunnel vision means that Magpie shows his perception of Catwoman as only a sultry kleptomaniac, or that he doesn't see Firefly's pyromania clearly so he made Firebug have a weird delusional hatred of buildings, or how Clayface III has a different power set and major health issues compared to Clayface II.

[Godzilla2099]

Cassandra Cain: Her character is a mess right now. She has the weaknesses but not her past strengths?

Place her in a different country like China or Thailand.

Most of my DVDs are Asian Action Flicks. I wouldn't mind seeing those pictures brought to a comic. I'd love to see Cass back to her former glory

[Frontier]

Etta is a field agent with a butch wardrobe. Waller wear suits and high heels. I think they're fine.

Although personality-wise I think Etta makes more sense in suits and heels (but I was never a big fan of Rucka's update to Etta's personality).

The thing is I'd like to see Etta appear more in the larger DCU. The WW book tends to be too isolated for my tastes. Etta Candy's an interesting character and I'd like to see Waller and her meet at some point. However, unless they make sure the two are distinct enough from each other, that probably won't happen. I would like to see her grow beyond the tired "black best friend" role and become someone who has connections beyond Diana and Steve, who I'd also like to see more of in the DCU.

Although the "black best friend" role is only a recent thing with the race revamp .

Personality-wise I think Etta and Waller should be the farthest thing from each other but I think that's a little more muddled with how Rucka wrote Etta.

[Vakanai]

Batman as a street level detective and nightwing as a global superspy.

I don't know, I kinda prefer Batman as a street level detective and Nightwing as a brain damaged amnesiac. That's a good way to differentiate the two.

[Frontier]

- Barry vs Wally: If DC is so dead set on making Barry the "Classic, Status Quo Friendly Flash," then just treat Wally as the opposite. Where Barry is the single, somewhat bland archetypal speedster stationed in a single city with a more run-of-the-mill status quo, Wally *is* married, raising his kids, more crazy in his speedster powers... and constantly traveling through places, times, dimensions to keep ahead of whatever cosmic retcon is trying to destroy him or his family right now; that's actually why the Wally in the current timeline is from the future, since he went back in time with his kids as a kind of "time travel refugee." Just go ahead and whole-heartedly embrace the meta-narrative that someone wants Wally and his family gone, and make that the actual narrative; heck, even the concept alone can be fun if Barry is talking to his biologically older sidekick who has fuzzy memories because of how time keeps changing.

I don't think Barry works as a swingin' single character. Wally was more the type to play the field before he settled on Linda.

-Batgirls: Again, it's really not hard to see how different these characters are, but if you want a major difference between Babs and Steph, Steph can be more stealth-based, befitting being a spoiler.

Modern Babs is also more tech/computer oriented, although I guess modern Steph is also a tech genius...?

[godisawesome]

I don't think Barry works as a swingin' single character. Wally was more the type to play the field before he settled on Linda.

Modern Babs is also more tech/computer oriented, although I guess modern Steph is also a tech genius...?

With Barry and Wally, I'm really just looking for ways to differentiate them, and get around editorials paralyzing fear of committed and married superheroes by giving them the Silver age standard they'd prefer... plus there's a part of me that just wants *my* Wally back, with Linda, the kids, and experience and maturity that honestly don't fit a young Wally anymore. I mean, if we are trying to divvy up two characters, then differentiation via their marital status would be wonderful, and heck yes, Barry should be the one who fits that mold a lot more. So I guess my proposal has the caveat of "To make sure editorial doesn't lose it's mind we'll placate them by giving Barry all the bland, non-threatening status quo things they hold sacrosanct."

I mean, to be honest? I'd be good with both Barry and Wally married and Geoff Johns trying to launch a Speed Force sub-franchise with ALL the speedsters in more matured forms... but I don't see that happening any time soon.

As for Steph and Babs, it occurs to me the MO and stylings could really be changed up; maybe Steph's more gadget and weapon happy, while Babs prefers a more hands on approach to combat and does most of her tech stuff in the pre-fight arena or something.

[Frontier]

With Barry and Wally, I'm really just looking for ways to differentiate them, and get around editorials paralyzing fear of committed and married superheroes by giving them the Silver age standard they'd prefer... plus there's a part of me that just wants *my* Wally back, with Linda, the kids, and experience and maturity that honestly don't fit a young Wally anymore. I mean, if we are trying to divvy up two characters, then differentiation via their marital status would be wonderful, and heck yes, Barry should be the one who fits that mold a lot more. So I guess my proposal has the caveat of "To make sure editorial doesn't lose it's mind we'll placate them by giving Barry all the bland, non-threatening status quo things they hold sacrosanct."

I mean, even in the Silver Age Barry was pretty dedicated to just Iris. If we're just having him in a Silver Age status quo he would probably be Barry Allen with "committed girlfriend Iris West," which is more or less what we have now.

I mean, to be honest? I'd be good with both Barry and Wally married and Geoff Johns trying to launch a Speed Force sub-franchise with ALL the speedsters in more matured forms... but I don't see that happening any time soon.

I think that's probably what Johns had planned when he first took over Barry's book.

As for Steph and Babs, it occurs to me the MO and stylings could really be changed up; maybe Steph's more gadget and weapon happy, while Babs prefers a more hands on approach to combat and does most of her tech stuff in the pre-fight arena or something.

Steph always stuck me as being more hands on when it comes to fights, but she did enjoy her Babs gadgets .

[kjn]

-Batgirls: Again, it's really not hard to see how different these characters are, but if you want a major difference between Babs and Steph, Steph can be more stealth-based, befitting being a spoiler.

Don't forget Batwoman there. Once DC put Babs back in the suit, she has been bouncing willy-nilly between being various ages and experience levels. So at one end she is competing with Spoiler and Orphan, on the other with Batwoman.

Frankly, I think removing her from the Oracle role was one of the worst regressions of New 52, doing a lot of damage to a whole group of characters in its consequences.

So I'd have the chip break down (wholly or partially) and have Babs back as Oracle full-time: librarian, information manager, leader of the Birds of Prey (international espionage and heist team, not another Gotham vigilante group), and secretary-general (or chief of staff, take your pick) of the Justice League.

[Aahz]

When it comes to Batgirls I think the problem with beeing to similar is more with Steph and Bette.

Barbara and Steph are different enough.

And there was of course with Cass and Strix, who are also quite similar. But I currently doubt that they will bring Strix back from limbo.

[Vampire Savior]

There’s always that, but, as has been pointed out by your favorite guy, there are too many comics being published and not enough talent to keep them all at the same caliber of quality. Maybe scaling back the number of comics published will help artists and editors from inevitably letting these kinds of details slip.

And what you heard there is a lie and cop out excuse. There is all kinds of talent out there who would love to work on DC Comics. Many of whom are better than a lot of the people DC currently employs. I know because I see them. The real reason for scaling back is because DC isn't selling enough product to justify creating all that. All you have to do is hear that to realize it makes a lot more sense than whatever DiDio said.

[kjn]

And what you heard there is a lie and cop out excuse. There is all kinds of talent out there who would love to work on DC Comics. Many of whom are better than a lot of the people DC currently employs. I know because I see them. The real reason for scaling back is because DC isn't selling enough product to justify creating all that. All you have to do is hear that to realize it makes a lot more sense than whatever DiDio said.

Could DC improve their hiring practices and creator retention? Undoubtedly.

But a lot more goes into this than simply being a good artist, or a good writer. Most comics are the product of highly creative teamwork, and with a publisher like DC the teamwork aspect is not only increased a lot, you add a lot of being able to deliver a consistent quality at a schedule.

It takes time to identify those people. And even when you do find them they need time to get up to speed.

DC is following a rather sound business strategy here, at least for the short term: take a look at titles which are marginally profitable, and cut them in order to concentrate their editors and high quality creators on titles which already turn a profit so they can be improved. Hopefully, DC will use the freed resources (like editor workload) to identify and mentor new up and coming creators, and to look into developing other properties that could become popular.

[Frontier]

Don't forget Batwoman there. Once DC put Babs back in the suit, she has been bouncing willy-nilly between being various ages and experience levels. So at one end she is competing with Spoiler and Orphan, on the other with Batwoman.

Frankly, I think removing her from the Oracle role was one of the worst regressions of New 52, doing a lot of damage to a whole group of characters in its consequences.

So I'd have the chip break down (wholly or partially) and have Babs back as Oracle full-time: librarian, information manager, leader of the Birds of Prey (international espionage and heist team, not another Gotham vigilante group), and secretary-general (or chief of staff, take your pick) of the Justice League.

I would say Batgirl is closer to the Batfamily but ever since Tynion's 'Tec run that's kind of shifted towards Batwoman.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

And what you heard there is a lie and cop out excuse. There is all kinds of talent out there who would love to work on DC Comics. Many of whom are better than a lot of the people DC currently employs. I know because I see them. The real reason for scaling back is because DC isn't selling enough product to justify creating all that. All you have to do is hear that to realize it makes a lot more sense than whatever DiDio said.

I'm not so sure. I think comics don't pay well enough, so most of the art talent goes to other industries like Hollywood and advertising, where they can make a much more comfortable living for less work. The people who work in comics do so because they love comics. Now that creator-owned comics are a viable thanks to massive success stories like the Walking Dead and Hellboy, the creators who are left also know they don't necessarily have to work for the Big Two to do what they want in comics, which reduces the talent pool DC and Marvel has even further.

Obviously this is all subjective, but I don't think Didio is too far off the mark in saying there isn't enough talent to sustain the number of books DC is publishing when there are better paying gigs in other industries and web comics and indies mean creators don't have to draw Spider-Man or Batman for people to know who they are. Frankly, I don't blame artists for not wanting to work in comics anymore. You have a better chance of making it into the NBA, producing 22 pages of great art every month is gruelling, your career will likely be short and might not pay very well, and you'll struggle to get work when you get older.