Star Trek: Picard

[DrNewGod]

The German word appears to have a more specific definition than the English one, too.

It is oddly more satisfying to say, as well. Good figure .. ...

For those of you that can consistently pronounce it correctly, I'm sure

[nx01a]

Oh come on, telling a story about a child who died (a character that has never existed before that story) is absolutely NOT the same thing as #womeninrefridgerators. COME ON! That's just... it's pretty ridiculous. I 100% understand that clearly children can be a trigger for some people, and I 100% respect your right to be upset. But 'killing' a fictional child that never existed till that moment is not in the same league as killing an established female character just to give the man something to be sad about.

By my understanding of fridging, the female character doesn't even have to be an established one. Killing a female character who never existed before that story just to add emotional momentum qualifies, doesn't it? Having said that, I was understandably worried when the old doctor friend Picard called up wasn't Crusher. I hope she appears in s2 and isn't retroactively killed off screen years ago to give Picard more pain.

[Kieran_Frost]

The German word appears to have a more specific definition than the English one, too.

It is oddly more satisfying to say, as well. Good figure ..

I always use Schadenfreude, it's so so SO satisfying to say!

I love Avenue Q.

That's because you have excellent taste!

By my understanding of fridging, the female character doesn't even have to be an established one. Killing a female character who never existed before that story just to add emotional momentum qualifies, doesn't it?

I don't know what the originator of the concept would think on that specific question, but I would politely hypothesis if the issue in comics was solely about female characters we've never met being killed off before we even know they exist... no... we wouldn't have a concept like 'women in refrigerators'. I don't think Ariel's mom, or Belle's mom has ever been sited as an example of 'women in refrigerators'

Having said that, I was understandably worried when the old doctor friend Picard called up wasn't Crusher. I hope she appears in s2 and isn't retroactively killed off screen years ago to give Picard more pain.

I think you're being a little ridiculous now. They aren't going to kill Crusher off screen. The show BROUGHT BACK the only dead cast member, based on what we've seen so far you have no basis to assume they'll kill of a main crew member off screen before Season 2 starts.

[nx01a]

I don't appreciate the term 'spiraling', thanks, and I think I'll stop engaging on this particular topic for the time being.

[Kieran_Frost]

I don't appreciate the term 'spiraling', thanks.

My apologies. I've edited it out of my post.

[Captain Craig]

Spiraling? Like in "as out of control". Is there another meaning for this simple word/phrase?

[Powerboy]

I'm finally getting a chance to watch this show. I find it very good on it's own merits so far though only three episodes in.

To get into what was discussed early in the thread, I do find it very Dystopian, especially by Star Trek standards. That Next Generation image of a perfect Earth where nothing bad happens and it's not about money and economics has turned into a world where some people live in mansions while others live in hovels and people seemingly still have to take menial low level jobs and need to keep them to survive. It's become a reflection of the present rather than the hope for the future Star Trek started out to be.

That doesn't make it bad and there is definitely foreshadowing of this. For some reason, this whole show makes me think of the episode where some renegade Starfleet people were building a "Phase-Cloak" ship (but were they renegades?) or the one where Picard refuses to go against everything the Federation stands for and commit genocide on the Borg and is told to do it if he ever gets the chance again.

So, Starfleet no longer being Starfleet has been building for a long time. DS9 particularly foreshadowed that this perfect humanity thing is an illusion.

I see Picard as an idealist beginning to really see that, as always, ideals don't equal reality to most others but an illusion of an ideal situation.

Still, sometimes, "reality" becomes an excuse to dismiss ideals even more. So, I'm liking "Picard" on it's own merits but not really seeing it as "Star Trek".

[Frobisher]

I'm finally getting a chance to watch this show. I find it very good on it's own merits so far though only three episodes in.

To get into what was discussed early in the thread, I do find it very Dystopian, especially by Star Trek standards. That Next Generation image of a perfect Earth where nothing bad happens and it's not about money and economics has turned into a world where some people live in mansions while others live in hovels and people seemingly still have to take menial low level jobs and need to keep them to survive. It's become a reflection of the present rather than the hope for the future Star Trek started out to be.

That doesn't make it bad and there is definitely foreshadowing of this. For some reason, this whole show makes me think of the episode where some renegade Starfleet people were building a "Phase-Cloak" ship (but were they renegades?) or the one where Picard refuses to go against everything the Federation stands for and commit genocide on the Borg and is told to do it if he ever gets the chance again.

So, Starfleet no longer being Starfleet has been building for a long time. DS9 particularly foreshadowed that this perfect humanity thing is an illusion.

I see Picard as an idealist beginning to really see that, as always, ideals don't equal reality to most others but an illusion of an ideal situation.

Still, sometimes, "reality" becomes an excuse to dismiss ideals even more. So, I'm liking "Picard" on it's own merits but not really seeing it as "Star Trek".

Picard only really works as Star Trek if the Federation's decline is a metaphor for Picard's own mental state. The Federation gave up because he gave up, and therefore the story is actually him learning that you get the world that you deserve and that old age is no excuse to stop trying. Of course, that means the entire Federation is going through this crazy militarized interregnum purely to dramatise the internal conflict of one protagonist, but by that token there's plenty of hope that his character arc will carry everything back to a better, more utopian state (unless Picard gets cancelled lol).

[CosmiComic]

I'm finally getting a chance to watch this show. I find it very good on it's own merits so far though only three episodes in.

To get into what was discussed early in the thread, I do find it very Dystopian, especially by Star Trek standards. That Next Generation image of a perfect Earth where nothing bad happens and it's not about money and economics has turned into a world where some people live in mansions while others live in hovels and people seemingly still have to take menial low level jobs and need to keep them to survive. It's become a reflection of the present rather than the hope for the future Star Trek started out to be.

That doesn't make it bad and there is definitely foreshadowing of this. For some reason, this whole show makes me think of the episode where some renegade Starfleet people were building a "Phase-Cloak" ship (but were they renegades?) or the one where Picard refuses to go against everything the Federation stands for and commit genocide on the Borg and is told to do it if he ever gets the chance again.

So, Starfleet no longer being Starfleet has been building for a long time. DS9 particularly foreshadowed that this perfect humanity thing is an illusion.

I see Picard as an idealist beginning to really see that, as always, ideals don't equal reality to most others but an illusion of an ideal situation.

Still, sometimes, "reality" becomes an excuse to dismiss ideals even more. So, I'm liking "Picard" on it's own merits but not really seeing it as "Star Trek".

They should bring the interphase cloak back.

[nx01a]

They should bring the interphase cloak back.

Just the phase part would be enough to make every Federation ship and outpost and planet invulnerable without breaking any treaties. Until someone comes up with the dephaser.

[CosmiComic]

Just the phase part would be enough to make every Federation ship and outpost and planet invulnerable without breaking any treaties. Until someone comes up with the dephaser.

Well, that could be part of the plot. Romulans or whoever else devises an intangibility device, and the Federation tries to negate it.

Of course, intangibility has limits, meaning it can only last for so long before it drains a ship's powers, so it wouldn't make the enemy completely invincible, just highly dangerous

[DrNewGod]

Picard only really works as Star Trek if the Federation's decline is a metaphor for Picard's own mental state. The Federation gave up because he gave up, and therefore the story is actually him learning that you get the world that you deserve and that old age is no excuse to stop trying. Of course, that means the entire Federation is going through this crazy militarized interregnum purely to dramatise the internal conflict of one protagonist, but by that token there's plenty of hope that his character arc will carry everything back to a better, more utopian state (unless Picard gets cancelled lol).

Possibly. I could also see a legitimate argument that TOS and TNG were both created during relatively optimistic times in the US, while Picard and DISC come from a less optimistic place. It may be less the ST many of us would like, but I can see the Federation's decline less as a reflection of a character than as a reflection of us.

[DrNewGod]

Well, that could be part of the plot. Romulans or whoever else devises an intangibility device, and the Federation tries to negate it.

Of course, intangibility has limits, meaning it can only last for so long before it drains a ship's powers, so it wouldn't make the enemy completely invincible, just highly dangerous

...and messily dead if the intangibility devices kaputs whilst inside a solid object.

[CosmiComic]

Possibly. I could also see a legitimate argument that TOS and TNG were both created during relatively optimistic times in the US, while Picard and DISC come from a less optimistic place. It may be less the ST many of us would like, but I can see the Federation's decline less as a reflection of a character than as a reflection of us.

The thing is, those eras were only optimistic from a certain point of view. They just pretended things were great, whereas there's a lot more cynical self-evaluation around now from what I see. So I can see why Picard and DSC are more "gloomy". Not that I agree with every either series has done.

...and messily dead if the intangibility devices kaputs whilst inside a solid object.

Exactly. And Idk if intangibility actually protects against direct-energy weapons, like phasers

[ChrisIII]

Possibly. I could also see a legitimate argument that TOS and TNG were both created during relatively optimistic times in the US, while Picard and DISC come from a less optimistic place. It may be less the ST many of us would like, but I can see the Federation's decline less as a reflection of a character than as a reflection of us.

"The Cage" pilot (Which takes place a few years before Discovery) I don't think really had the whole Utopian thing quite down, I don't think (Pike seems deeply bitter for the first half) seems that was more when the show got rolling that it became more of a thing, particularly by the end of season one and City on The Edge of Forever, with Kirk lamenting that Edith's ideas were good and ultiametly right, just not at the time.