Star Trek: Picard

[nx01a]

I'm glad you enjoyed season 2. I did, too, but that was mostly for the partial return to episodic adventures and Pike/#1/Young Spock. Pike was the best thing about season 2. Season 3 looks just like Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda. The producers have no idea what they want to do with the show.

I cared about the characters in previous Trek incarnations. I think they were well fleshed out, especially DS9's characters. Of course, I also preferred the first few seasons of the original CSI where it was mostly just about the quirky, competent CSIs working cases and not their overwrought backstories and home lives. I can know who a character is and what they're about without needless, over the top drama. I don't care about Michael or her family drama. I don't care about Ash or Tilly or the android they killed off without ever making the audience really know her. I'm far more invested in Saru. That's one person. Hell, I'd rather see more of Jet Reno than any of the others: she was a quirky, fun character who was damn good at her job. And I'd dump all of them like a phaser-cooked hot potato for a Pike/#1/Young Spock show. The problem with today's entertainment is believing every character has to fail horribly and be broken and tragic and dark to be 'realistic'. What BS.

As for Picard, at least the characters are working from broken toward healing as the season closes. I'm really happy about that. Rios being tied to the Cylons is a huge narrative stretch but him finding meaning to his suffering was pleasing. Raffi working to get over her addiction is great. Agnes taking steps to correct her mistakes. I'm very happy with the show right now. I hope they stick the landing.

[Donald]

>>> You really have to errata a lot when you consider Romulans hate Data specifically and yet they never held any special animosity towards him in TNG, especially when you consider Insurrection. This sort of inconsistency really does parallel the differences between Klingons in TOS and in TNG.

Does the everyday Romulan know why there are no synths allowed in the Romulan empire? The Zhat Vash seem to be secret even from Romulan citizens and they probably would not want knowledge of The Destroyer disrupting everyday life.

A few synths running around would cause the Zhat Vash alarm, but not enough to reveal themselves to eliminate them.

[Robotech Master]

There's a slight bit of retconning in that they say the Zhat Vash has manipulated Romulan culture to make sure it includes distaste for synthetics, but that can be worked in because exactly what the distaste involves for the general Romulan public isn't known and therefore doesn't necessarily conflict with all past showings. What is a bit harder to accept is that the Zhat Vash took no action against Data in his nearly 2 decades of star fleet service. Obviously out-of-universe is because they weren't created until now, but in-universe we have to presume that him being on the Enterprise was too risky for them to attempt something. Problem is, they've been portrayed with such religious zealotry that's its hard to believe they never thought of having an agent disguised as a human spend years working up in Star fleet until getting stationed on the Enterprise, then one day just phaser him in the back in a hallway somewhere.

[Pinsir]

Does the everyday Romulan know why there are no synths allowed in the Romulan empire? The Zhat Vash seem to be secret even from Romulan citizens and they probably would not want knowledge of The Destroyer disrupting everyday life.

A few synths running around would cause the Zhat Vash alarm, but not enough to reveal themselves to eliminate them.

Some of the encounters the Enterprise had with Romulans still make sense, but one reoccurring antagonist was Sela, who claimed to be head of the Tal Shiar and she didn't take any special interest in Data. The Romulans in TNG where mostly interested in Klingon stuff.

[Donald]

What is a bit harder to accept is that the Zhat Vash took no action against Data in his nearly 2 decades of star fleet service. Obviously out-of-universe is because they weren't created until now, but in-universe we have to presume that him being on the Enterprise was too risky for them to attempt something. Problem is, they've been portrayed with such religious zealotry that's its hard to believe they never thought of having an agent disguised as a human spend years working up in Star fleet until getting stationed on the Enterprise, then one day just phaser him in the back in a hallway somewhere.

Data's discovery could have been what prompted Oh's infiltration of Star Fleet. One android was worth looking into, but they'd want more info before doing anything rash.

[MichaelC]

There's a slight bit of retconning in that they say the Zhat Vash has manipulated Romulan culture to make sure it includes distaste for synthetics, but that can be worked in because exactly what the distaste involves for the general Romulan public isn't known and therefore doesn't necessarily conflict with all past showings. What is a bit harder to accept is that the Zhat Vash took no action against Data in his nearly 2 decades of star fleet service. Obviously out-of-universe is because they weren't created until now, but in-universe we have to presume that him being on the Enterprise was too risky for them to attempt something. Problem is, they've been portrayed with such religious zealotry that's its hard to believe they never thought of having an agent disguised as a human spend years working up in Star fleet until getting stationed on the Enterprise, then one day just phaser him in the back in a hallway somewhere.

Or disguised as a Vulcan, which would be massively easier. Oh doesn't make the slightest effort to disguise her Romulan emotions. If she can infiltrate Star Fleet, someone legit skilled at faking Vulcan mannerisms would crush it.

Honestly, Oh gets on my nerves. She's so obviously Romulan that she might as well be wearing a sign. THAT'S your infiltrator?? She's the equivalent of a Russian spy saying things like, "greetings, fellow Comrade of glorious Capitalist America! Let us discuss important secrets while eating delicious hamburgers and shooting many bullets!"

[Sutekh]

Some of the encounters the Enterprise had with Romulans still make sense, but one reoccurring antagonist was Sela, who claimed to be head of the Tal Shiar and she didn't take any special interest in Data. The Romulans in TNG where mostly interested in Klingon stuff.

Although there was that one scene where the Romulans were attempting to sneak past a Federation blockade and specifically targetted the area patrolled by, as Sela referred to it, 'the ship with the android commander', as if she considered that an inherent weak link in the Federation's blockade.

Anywho, I suppose it could be retconned that Data wasn't prophecied as 'the Destroyer,' and was a 'one-off' and not part of an entire race / culture of synths, so the crazies didn't care about him enough to risk breaking cover.

[nx01a]

On another synth note... How many androids [and supercomputers] did the Federation encounter before Data? TOS was littered with them.

[ZeroBG82]

Or disguised as a Vulcan, which would be massively easier. Oh doesn't make the slightest effort to disguise her Romulan emotions. If she can infiltrate Star Fleet, someone legit skilled at faking Vulcan mannerisms would crush it.

Honestly, Oh gets on my nerves. She's so obviously Romulan.

Alternatively, her half Romulan heritage may not be a secret, and her emotions may not be at all suspect. You're assuming she is pretending to be fully Vulcan when there is absolutely no reason to assume that.

It is FAR more likely that Oh is known to be half Romulan by birth and everyone expects her emotional state to be what it is. It is only her loyalty to the Zhat Vash that is a secret.

[titanfan]

Honestly, Oh gets on my nerves. She's so obviously Romulan that she might as well be wearing a sign. THAT'S your infiltrator?? She's the equivalent of a Russian spy saying things like, "greetings, fellow Comrade of glorious Capitalist America! Let us discuss important secrets while eating delicious hamburgers and shooting many bullets!"

If they all don't already know, then that plot point would be ridiculous.

[nx01a]

Alternatively, her half Romulan heritage may not be a secret, and her emotions may not be at all suspect. You're assuming she is pretending to be fully Vulcan when there is absolutely no reason to assume that.

It is FAR more likely that Oh is known to be half Romulan by birth and everyone expects her emotional state to be what it is. It is only her loyalty to the Zhat Vash that is a secret.

Starfleet would be insane to let an openly 1/2 Romulan rise to the head of Starfleet security.

Also... 1/2 Romulan, 1/2 Vulcan? Oh, if only we got to see that with T'Pol in an Enterprise season 5!

[Gray Lensman]

Or disguised as a Vulcan, which would be massively easier. Oh doesn't make the slightest effort to disguise her Romulan emotions. If she can infiltrate Star Fleet, someone legit skilled at faking Vulcan mannerisms would crush it.

Honestly, Oh gets on my nerves. She's so obviously Romulan that she might as well be wearing a sign. THAT'S your infiltrator?? She's the equivalent of a Russian spy saying things like, "greetings, fellow Comrade of glorious Capitalist America! Let us discuss important secrets while eating delicious hamburgers and shooting many bullets!"

We already have a meme for that.

Screen_Shot_2017_07_13_at_1.09.20_PM.0.jpg

[ZeroBG82]

Edit:

In light of episode 9, nah. You guys were pretty much right on.

[Pinsir]

On another synth note... How many androids [and supercomputers] did the Federation encounter before Data? TOS was littered with them.

Mankinds interaction with machines is one of the major themes of TOS where as TNG was more interested in culture. You had sex bots, computer simulated warfare, automated starships, several cultures where machines govern society...

[Anthony W]

Wow...They are really going to do it.

Star Trek is going to go full Mass Effect and summon The Reapers.