You missed mentioning Soji's twin sister and her boyfriend getting murdered all in the first episode by Romulan assassins.
This new shows like Picard and Discovery don't know Trek is meant to be optimistic, while at the same time still tackling interesting social and complex themes.
Last edited by Castle; 07-23-2021 at 03:26 PM.
I think this is a little... unfair. YES these were bleak things, but a lot of hope and love and support came out of those events. Picard helped mend broken people, to the point they nearly all found peace by the end. That's surely very optimistic?
According to whom?
"We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."
As I mentioned in another post, maybe it felt so hopeless because the season was one long episode of hopelessness instead of self-contained episodes or arcs of hopelessness with closure at the end. I don't watch Trek to be beaten over the head with drug-using, personality disorder-riddled, broken characters trapped in horrible situations for entire seasons at an end. If I wanted that, I'd look in the mirror.
It's like my reasoning with Game of Thrones or Walking Dead. How can viewers come back week after week to watch characters be emotionally and physically broken ad nauseum until they finally [mercifully] die horribly? If watching people suffer is entertainment for you, go watch something else. Star Trek shouldn't be about that, even if the surviving characters find 2 minutes of vague happiness after a season of being dragged and pain sticked through Gre'thor.
Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
I've had a pet theory for awhile that some people do like to see other people suffer. It makes them feel better about their own lives if they see someone who has it far worse than they do. I might be way off base about that, but it might be a case of seeing a character go through pain and tragedy and think "My life sucks--but it's way better than that guy's." And then they follow the character to see if he or she triumphs, fails, or joins a growing body count.
The original Star Trek series was something of a counter to the real-world crap going on at the time, IMO. War, race riots, the threat of nuclear annihilation. TOS didn't depict a continuation of that, but rather a future in which not only did humanity survive, it got better. It came together and went forward as one people. That's been the general "optimism" of Trek, and it's still there in every iteration of Trek, even when it sometimes takes a dark turn.
"Ignore them. They're nothing but a bunch of basement dwellers who spend all day whining on the 'net. Not a single open-minded one in the bunch."
--Andre Briggs, Justice League International #1
But again, I think you're being overly harsh. The episodes were full of bonding, and love and support and affection. You are just choosing not to see it. You focus on the lose of Troi's son, but don't acknowledge all the good feels those characters have for one another, for being together, and for coming through it stronger. Moments of sadness and trouble does not = never-ending despair.
From a narrative point of view, for those who care about that, you need to over-come adversity for the victory to possess meaning. Achieving success when it was little to no burden is just bad writing. Even characters in Studio Ghibli have to hit rock bottom, to make the climb back up all the sweeter.
"We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."
I consider killing children for plot development even lower than fridging women. And while I think you're being far too optimistic about Picard s1 and the IMHO vastly unnecessary traumas its characters were subjected to, I am at least glad you found enjoyment in it even though I for the most part didn't.
Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
Finding pleasure in another's pain is called schadenfreude.
It is not a theory but a real thing, FWIW.
"Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium
Intersting. And apparently it has an English equivalent, "epicaricacy".
Oh come on, telling a story about a child who died (a character that has never existed before that story) is absolutely NOT the same thing as #womeninrefridgerators. COME ON! That's just... it's pretty ridiculous. I 100% understand that clearly children can be a trigger for some people, and I 100% respect your right to be upset. But 'killing' a fictional child that never existed till that moment is not in the same league as killing an established female character just to give the man something to be sad about.
Maybe there's a happy middle ground, between me being too optimistic, and you being too pessimistic, that we both need to find.
The fact you don't all know every single word to every single song in Avenue Q leaves me SHOOKETH!!!
"We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."
"Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium
TWD's comic actually has a happy ending (no cures or anything but civilization is getting back on it's feet and the Walker threat is mostly contained), although at one point Kirkman wanted to end it a bit earlier with a downer one. It's unclear whether the TV series will follow, although there are spin-offs planned.
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