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  1. #556
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    The more I think about it, the more there are reasons for Clancy to go rather than Riker, but really:

    - For Clancy: Picard's most visible and highest ranking opponent within Starfleet flying to his rescue would show that Picard and Stafleet have mended fences, and if Starfleet were truly evil it wouldn't have answered the call (she already said they were sending a fleet to help, but her dislike of Picard makes her even more fitting from a thematic standpoint). It would be another example of Picard turning an antagonist over thanks to his personal strength, fortitude, and standing, and for all the times he was yelled at this season, Picard would be right and Clancy/Starfleet would be redeemed.
    - For Riker: Hitting upon the strongest emotional beats of the season while scratching that nostalgia itch. Plus, Clancy already redeemed herself when she agreed to send a fleet to help Picard (of course, having to drop another F bomb to do so), and so having Clancy fly in would be redundant. Moreso, assuming Riker was picked up and launched from his planet, he'd be in better position to reach Coppellius.
    - The (geographic) case for neither: Considering that that La Sirena changed course from Deep Space 12 where they were supposed to rendezvous with the fleet, that La Sirena needed a Borg transwarp conduit to get to Coppellius, and that Picard sent his SOS between a few hours to a day before, Starfleet got there *incredibly* fast. Though of course, it is Trek tradition that FTL always travels at the speed of plot, with help arriving a split second before total destruction (ahem, the Klingon cavalry in the Dominion War, anyone?)

    ----

    Anyway, Michael Chabon's been very good at answering fan questions on his instagram, but there are a few points I'd want to highlight. He doesn't quite say it outright, but the fact that so many useful scenes were left on the cutting room floor or intended but written out of the final draft tells me just how much this two-parter was overstuffed. Maybe Picard would have benefitted from a 12 to 15 episode order rather than 10, or maybe the writers (Chabon included) could have scaled back a bit. But some things to note:

    - Editing makes it very unclear how much time has passed between Picard's death and resurrection. The cuts make it seem (at least to me the first time) that a day had passed, at best, going from daytime to breakfast. But according to Chabon, enough time passed that would have allowed Seven and Raffi to start dating rather than flirting and near-instant chemistry (again, that's what I saw and that's what I thought), as well as giving enough time for Jurati to lawyer-up -- both of those things should take a longer amount of time than 24 hours. Except that none of this is explained, even the time frame. Of note, Chabon dislikes captain's logs because he finds them stalling and unnecessary, giving the audience info they already know (seems like a logical enough reason to me, plus La Sirena is not Starfleet), but in this case a log by Captain Rios would've filled in that gap.

    - The reason for having the Borg in this season would have been a build up to a parallel to the Synth colony. xBs struggling to regain their non-Borg identities would be a flip of the Synths being sentient beings, and also bring the show closer to the themes of Descent and the film First Contact. This would've been driven home by a scene of the xBs from the crashed Borg Cube meeting the Synths, joining together in shared interests and survival, and creating a wonderful combined society of the two. It would also further Picard's point about how the Borg mission may be evil but Borg drones/assimilees are victims, and it would be the greatest tribute to the fallen Hugh. Unfortunately, again, this scene just didn't make it, but for me it would have solidified a number of themes that I feel were good ideas but just not followed through. It seems like the Borg were in the season just for trailer bait, whereas editing really would have made them contribute a bit more to the Synths (and I said last week that my concern about the Synths was that it gave us a population that we're told to care about but not shown why -- the xBs were meant to show us why by proxy, but that link was not established in the final product).

    - Again, because of editing: according to Chabon, Narek was indeed arrested and placed in Federation custody.

    - Not that important, but Chabon says Rios returned the magical ocarina knuckles. I've mixed feelings about this device, in that it seems both too fantastical but also that Starfleet tools are ill-defined in function anyway that it might as well be the same thing. After all, 30 years later, we still don't know what self-sealing stem bolts do (even O'Brien didn't know). Still, if Rios took it as a permanent tool then Star Trek would have its own sonic screwdriver.

    I suspect this two-parter would benefit greatly from a director's cut. Everything in this episode was almost too fast, including the scenes of characters simply talking to each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    >Raffi's been playing the black maternal figure for a few crying white people lately. That's a bad trope to buy into, Trek.
    The first death of the show was a Black man, too. That was disappointing.
    Last edited by Cyke; 03-28-2020 at 04:13 AM.

  2. #557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    They would never do it, but if (heaven forbid) Stewart dies they can just say that they had his brain patterns saved and then download them into a new body/actor. "


    Right. Exactly.





    I think next season is going to focus on cosmic deities. We'll get to see Q and maybe even Sisco.
    That could be fun. IDW put out a ST crossover book -TNG,DS9,etc.-where they fought numerous cosmic beings.

  3. #558
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    ...and another thing...
    Why would Seven leave the ex-Borg and a regenerating Borg cube behind to gallivant across the quadrant with Picard et al? The cutting room floor unity between the Synths and the xBs is desperately needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  4. #559
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    ...and another thing...
    Why would Seven leave the ex-Borg and a regenerating Borg cube behind to gallivant across the quadrant with Picard et al? The cutting room floor unity between the Synths and the xBs is desperately needed.
    I'm thinking that the Xbs were turned over to Starfleet.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  5. #560
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    I finally sat down and watched the last three episodes. I guess it says something that I went three weeks without watching this, and didn't mind. While living under a city wide lockdown.

    This show sucked. Just a bunch of awful shit. I don't dislike the idea they went with, but the execution was fucking terrible. What a shame.

  6. #561

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    I thought it was kinda funny post-resurrection Picard only cared about immortality but seemed disappointed he didn't have super strength or a longer lifespan.

    Though about that...was that the goal all along, to put Picard in a new body commensurate to his old one just more...sturdier? To explain why this old man hasn't died 50 times over in future seasons? So he won't get concussions anymore taking the brunt of explosions? Plus I can't be the only thinking "Brain disease? Pft Q would fix it cause the 'trial' is not over!"

  7. #562
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    If you think anything on this show was that well thought out, well...

  8. #563

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joker View Post
    If you think anything on this show was that well thought out, well...
    I kind of got that impression after the, oh, third, admonishment of Picard. I had a theory as to what was going on but I wanted to wait till the show was over in case I was wrong.

    Ever seen Blunt Talk? Not just you, but anyone reading this post as well? For those who haven't:

    It was essentially a vanity project with Stewart playing an exaggerated version of himself in a Piers Morgan-type role. It was a zany comedy that's bread and butter was mostly misunderstandings, sexual wackiness (ex. his character specifically needed to be cuddled on an air mattress, at work, by a female friend at times), and...admonishment for how he was an a-hole in the past and trying to be a better person. Oh and Brent Spiner cameod as the piano player at one of his favorite drinking spots for at least 2 eps, maybe more.

    It lasted two seasons and I think was on the bubble for a third season renewal before it was finally cancelled.

    So watching Star Trek: Picard, and how suddenly he was retroactively, well, Walter Blunt just in the future and calling himself Picard, I was like "Is this some stealth third season of Blunt Talk?" Apparently the original pitch was Picard basically being an archeologist but Stewart rejected it in favor of what we got. Hmmm...space Indiana Jones or space Walter Blunt. Pick your poison I guess.

  9. #564
    Extraordinary Member Jokerz79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    I kind of got that impression after the, oh, third, admonishment of Picard. I had a theory as to what was going on but I wanted to wait till the show was over in case I was wrong.

    Ever seen Blunt Talk? Not just you, but anyone reading this post as well? For those who haven't:

    It was essentially a vanity project with Stewart playing an exaggerated version of himself in a Piers Morgan-type role. It was a zany comedy that's bread and butter was mostly misunderstandings, sexual wackiness (ex. his character specifically needed to be cuddled on an air mattress, at work, by a female friend at times), and...admonishment for how he was an a-hole in the past and trying to be a better person. Oh and Brent Spiner cameod as the piano player at one of his favorite drinking spots for at least 2 eps, maybe more.

    It lasted two seasons and I think was on the bubble for a third season renewal before it was finally cancelled.

    So watching Star Trek: Picard, and how suddenly he was retroactively, well, Walter Blunt just in the future and calling himself Picard, I was like "Is this some stealth third season of Blunt Talk?" Apparently the original pitch was Picard basically being an archeologist but Stewart rejected it in favor of what we got. Hmmm...space Indiana Jones or space Walter Blunt. Pick your poison I guess.
    I just want Stewart to play Ed's 1st commanding officer now a retired Admiral on Orville so I can see TNG Picard one last time.

  10. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    ...and another thing...
    Why would Seven leave the ex-Borg and a regenerating Borg cube behind to gallivant across the quadrant with Picard et al? The cutting room floor unity between the Synths and the xBs is desperately needed.
    Why would she leave leading the Rangers? I think she's just hitching a ride on the ship (and Raffi) to get back the Rangers and re-occuring character hood.
    Sounds perfect.

  11. #566
    Mighty Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    I remembered what the camera in the dialogue scenes reminds me of, which is when a character is talking in a videogame but you can still move around and spin the camera while you wait for them to finish so you can get back to playing the game.

  12. #567
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I haven't finished the series yet but is there any mention of what happened with the Enterprise-E? While the show of course pays a lot of tribute to D with the opening scene, the hologram at starfleet command etc. it doesn't seem to be mentioned. It'd be nifty if Worf or Geordi were the captain, although I think in DS9 Sisko said that Starfleet would be wary of giving Worf a command despite his experience with the Defiant due to that one episode he screwed up an important mission to save Jadzia.


    Judging by what I've seen of Riker's fleet they kind of look similar to the E and it's class with the nacelles and impulse engines, although with more of a Voyager kind of shape.
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  13. #568
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I'm finding the backlash to the show's profanity a bit interesting. Granted, Trek IV made the crew's unfamiliarity with swearing part of it's humor, but this is also the same franchise where "Damn it, Jim!" is one of the catchphrases.
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  14. #569
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    I'm finding the backlash to the show's profanity a bit interesting. Granted, Trek IV made the crew's unfamiliarity with swearing part of it's humor, but this is also the same franchise where "Damn it, Jim!" is one of the catchphrases.
    The profanity doesn't bother me personally, but I think "damn it" is pretty mild in the minds of some people compared to "fuck".
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  15. #570
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    The profanity doesn't bother me personally, but I think "damn it" is pretty mild in the minds of some people compared to "fuck".
    As long as it's not Picard himself doing it, I'm ok with the word, and only because it would so uncharacteristic for the normally composed and dignified Picard. For one thing, it turns out he's the least damaged out of everyone else, and it may be because of all his time on the Enterprise fortifying him that much (they've seen plenty of anomalies and deaths and entities and jump scares that would elicit a severe swear word from anyone else, but they're trained professionals). But for everyone else in the cast, saying the word "fuck" is the least of their worries.

    DS9 had a one-shot character wearing a necklace of Cardassian bones, and I'm sure O'Brien swore up a storm whenever he was offscreen, especially after he got away with saying "Bollocks" uncensored.

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