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  1. #466
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    2.) A flashback to Rios' Starfleet career.

    how disappointing...
    From the picture they showed he didn't have the beard back then, so...
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  2. #467
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Most of the hardcore Trek fans I know despise Discovery but enjoy Picard. The main differences they cite are that Picard never went out if it's way to antagonize fans of what came before like Discovery did, and the show is less heavy handed ( going against Michael is a bigger death flag than being two days from retirement in an action flick).
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  3. #468
    Incredible Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Most of the hardcore Trek fans I know despise Discovery but enjoy Picard. The main differences they cite are that Picard never went out if it's way to antagonize fans of what came before like Discovery did, and the show is less heavy handed ( going against Michael is a bigger death flag than being two days from retirement in an action flick).
    What is Disco doing to antagonize fans? I hear this complaint a lot but watching it all I see is Star Trek with a more realistic looking ship interior and obviously much better CGI. The main character isn't a Captain but otherwise this is basically Star Trek through and through. Michael isn't my favorite character on the show but she is an interesting character because she is flawed whereas too many characters on past ST shows were shown as near perfect most of the time.

  4. #469
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    What is Disco doing to antagonize fans? I hear this complaint a lot but watching it all I see is Star Trek with a more realistic looking ship interior and obviously much better CGI.
    So Star Trek always had Iron Man suits and space battles more reminiscent of Star Wars complete with R2 units?

    Quote Originally Posted by TriggerWarning View Post
    The main character isn't a Captain but otherwise this is basically Star Trek through and through. Michael isn't my favorite character on the show but she is an interesting character because she is flawed whereas too many characters on past ST shows were shown as near perfect most of the time.
    They were never perfect, far from it. They were just skilled professionals. I think you may be getting "perfect" and "professional" mixed up.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  5. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Most of the hardcore Trek fans I know despise Discovery but enjoy Picard. The main differences they cite are that Picard never went out if it's way to antagonize fans of what came before like Discovery did, and the show is less heavy handed ( going against Michael is a bigger death flag than being two days from retirement in an action flick).
    It also helps Picard has Michael Chabon as a showrunner. That's really hard to beat.

  6. #471
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    It also helps Picard has Michael Chabon as a showrunner. That's really hard to beat.
    Too bad Chabon is off the show.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  7. #472
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    I enjoyed both seasons of Discovery and I'm liking Picard so far. I don't get the hate for either honestly, would I rather them to be more episodic like TOS and TNG? Sure, but the characters are great and the story is interesting so it's a small complaint.

  8. #473
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    So this show is starting to remind me a lot of Bioshock in more than just the ship design; in Bioshock there is a ban on artificial life after a race of synthetics known as Geth usurp their alien masters. The Geth then attempt to summon a race of hyper robots that reside outside the galaxy who every million years or so wipe out all space faring civilizations.

    Its basically implied in this episode that artificial life is going to summon a cthulu robot or something just like in Mass Effect
    Last edited by Pinsir; 03-16-2020 at 10:53 PM.
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  9. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    So Star Trek always had Iron Man suits and space battles more reminiscent of Star Wars complete with R2 units?
    Unlike Romulans who spit acid, having a Space Legolas and flesh androids who fight like ninja?


    They were never perfect, far from it. They were just skilled professionals. I think you may be getting "perfect" and "professional" mixed up.
    Trek back then was worse at showing down time with characters, they sounded like robots who didn't know what to do than real people.

  10. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Unlike Romulans who spit acid, having a Space Legolas and flesh androids who fight like ninja?




    Trek back then was worse at showing down time with characters, they sounded like robots who didn't know what to do than real people.
    I disagree. Next Gen characters were charming and their personal lives were often the most entertaining part of the show.

  11. #476
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Most of the hardcore Trek fans I know despise Discovery but enjoy Picard. The main differences they cite are that Picard never went out if it's way to antagonize fans of what came before like Discovery did, and the show is less heavy handed ( going against Michael is a bigger death flag than being two days from retirement in an action flick).
    It really has more to do with Picard continuing something they like then any objective standard. Discovery had a good episode this many episodes in (Magic to Make the Sanest Man Go Mad), and Picard hasn't, yet I still like Picard more because 'muh nostalgia.'
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  12. #477
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Just some thoughts specifically on this episode;
    >>> Connecting Rios to the larger synthetic story is really pushing the boundaries of what is believable. It is way too much of coincidence that this rando pilot is actually connected to the larger plot. This strikes me as poor writing.
    >>> I really am disappointed that the Romulans are just straight up bad guys now when they had earlier been written in this series as being more interesting. Its also clear that the writers were basically unable to reconcile the 'Romulan refugee plot' to the 'Romulans hate robots!' stuff. They might as well not be the same species. How can a society spend so much time on an old feud when they were just BTFO?
    >>> The 'Reaper' plot is pretty dumb when you consider the last season of Star Trek involved a highly advanced A.I.... I get it, reconciling Star Treks canon can be a daunting, but how are these synths in any way more advanced than the A.I. in Discovery? Both these shows are run by the same people...yet the universe is so inconsistent within the material they themselves made.
    >>> You really have to errata a lot when you consider Romulans hate Data specifically and yet they never held any special animosity towards him in TNG, especially when you consider Insurrection. This sort of inconsistency really does parallel the differences between Klingons in TOS and in TNG.
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  13. #478
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Unlike Romulans who spit acid, having a Space Legolas and flesh androids who fight like ninja?
    Actually it's an upgraded poison pill. Still dumb, but less dumb than Romulans having the ability to spit acid. Feel free to look into my post history when I go out of my way to call the rest of that stuff out. I even said that the show is becoming Discovery level bad. What else do you want?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Trek back then was worse at showing down time with characters, they sounded like robots who didn't know what to do than real people.
    Didn't you just say they were perfect?
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  14. #479
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    My bad. Multitasking. Forgot that I responded to this post.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 03-17-2020 at 08:48 AM.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  15. #480
    Incredible Member TriggerWarning's Avatar
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    Finally finished Discovery season 2 yesterday.

    I had low expectations of this show when I started a few weeks ago. I didn't have CBS streaming as it came out which is why I hadn't seen it and I heard conflicting things about it, largely negative.

    But holy crap this was amazing. Finally three dimensional interesting characters with quirks and flaws. Playing a trombone or clarinet or reading print books instead of e-readers (old Star Trek staples) doesn't make you an interesting character if thats all they ever show of your personality, its how you interact with others for good and bad that makes you interesting and this show did this great. Its also the flaws you have as a character that makes plot points around you interesting. I'm fairly meh about Michael but thats largely because she is hard character to like given her flaws but at the same time this makes her an interesting character. Whereas with a majority of characters on older Star Trek shows you had a few minor character quirks that they would repeat ad nauseum due to the lack of serialized storytelling.

    Speaking of which, serialized storytelling really works well for Star Trek. I never felt any stakes on prior Star Trek series because you knew that by the end of the episode everything would be reset and rarely would something that happened on a prior episode ever be mentioned again. You knew characters would live no matter how dire it looked unless it was a season finale and then you generally knew ahead of time it was coming (for instance it was known that Terry Ferrel was leaving DS9 so Dax's death was not a surprise). Another example is that one of the greatest TNG episodes is considered Inner Light and it is a good episode. Yet they never mention it again which is utter crap. Picard lived a whole lifetime, he fell in love, he had children, he had grandchildren. And it was all snatched away as if it never existed. We get a solemn scene at the end of the episode and then its like it never happened because you have to reset for the next episode. That should have messed him emotionally far more than Locutus did. On Disco this would be like if the whole Ash Tyler is actually Voq and Michael and Ash falling in love had all happened in the same episode and then next episode they never mention it again. Instead its a slow burn drama across both seasons and the storytelling and character development is so much the better for it. Or another example, O'Brien spends 20 years in prison and during the episode shows extreme PTSD from it but he's all cured by the next episode whereas on Disco you can see numerous examples of characters realistically reacting to past trauma many episodes or even a season later- for instance it Dr Culber having realistic reactions to Ash Tyler for numerous episodes as compared to how it would have been done on a show like TNG where they would have resolved it in 20 minutes and then never brought it up again.

    Eagerly awaiting season 3.
    Last edited by TriggerWarning; 03-17-2020 at 09:27 AM.

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