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  1. #736
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Quark was mentioned in Picard twice, so it's a possibility.
    GOD, I'd love that. Quark has so much still to mine in his character, and he's a very very good actor.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  2. #737
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    So, this is a hater thread now. Good to know.
    The show so far to many fans was disappointing, that will make this thread more of a frustration thread than a haters thread.

    Should fans be worried of how Q will be portrayed for instance? I say yes.

    Paramount CBS just gave this franchise to the hands of the wrong people.

  3. #738
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    The show so far to many fans was disappointing, that will make this thread more of a frustration thread than a haters thread.
    Was it??? I can only speak from my own experience (and it's all circumstantial), but online this is THE FIRST time I've seen a group not love it. Every week on Twitter, and everyone I know on Facebook... all loved it. The only time I saw 'annoyance' was killing Hugh, and the out-pour of love for him was the main message to take from that. Genuinely, first I'm hearing of dislike of the series as a whole.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  4. #739
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    So, this is a hater thread now. Good to know.
    All new Star Trek is more or less hated on arrival it seems. It also eventually passes the point where it gets reexamined and either considered to have been judged too harshly and/or worth noting what it got right. I mean, remember when Enterprise was the blight that destroyed the franchise?

    Personally, I think that the new paradigm we're seeing with Star Trek, where the new installments are being made with the idea that they can take creative liberties with the lore and reimagine stuff if so desired after it being pretty heavily hard-wired into the franchise that continuity was pretty iron-clad and that the show reimagined little is something that's going to be hard for those of us who loved the stronger continuity between installments to adjust to. You got some who never cared about that, others, like that Ex Astris Scientia fan site guy, who can't accept it and vent over it (not saying anyone has to like it, but it's sad to see the site having gone downhill with his editorialization that Discovery is non-canon and false Star Trek due to being unable to accept anything new), or people like me, who find the revisionism annoying, but have kinda taken a "canon is broken" approach and try to take the new material on its own terms.

    Mileage may vary.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  5. #740
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    I really enjoyed the show.

    My two issues were killing Hugh.
    Making Picard a robot and that is a huge issue I have.

    Hoping Q snaps his fingers and undoes that Picard S1 fiasco.
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

  6. #741
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    I'd like a standard canon, but I'm not going to say something I dislike is not canon. That seems excessive.

    Star Trek has had problems with canon from the beginning. And doing prequels like Star Trek seemed to be obsessed with in the 21st century makes that extra tricky

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Craig View Post
    I really enjoyed the show.

    My two issues were killing Hugh.
    Making Picard a robot and that is a huge issue I have.

    Hoping Q snaps his fingers and undoes that Picard S1 fiasco.
    I can't say I'm totally against Hugh dying, so long as he dies on a good day!

    But Picard becoming a robot that looks the same seems a little suspect, at least at this time. We'll see how it turns out. But his "death" scene was a bit lame for me, especially since I was enjoying it up to that moment. We actually got to see Riker do something!

  7. #742
    Extraordinary Member Deathstroke's Avatar
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    I loved the first 9 episodes really. It was just the events of the 10th episode I didn't like. But I'm still on board for Season 2.
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  8. #743
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    ...others, like that Ex Astris Scientia fan site guy, who can't accept it and vent over it (not saying anyone has to like it, but it's sad to see the site having gone downhill with his editorialization that Discovery is non-canon and false Star Trek due to being unable to accept anything new)...
    Is that the site that has all the gorgeous bridge illustrations? If so, that's sad.

  9. #744
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    All new Star Trek is more or less hated on arrival it seems. It also eventually passes the point where it gets reexamined and either considered to have been judged too harshly and/or worth noting what it got right. I mean, remember when Enterprise was the blight that destroyed the franchise?

    Personally, I think that the new paradigm we're seeing with Star Trek, where the new installments are being made with the idea that they can take creative liberties with the lore and reimagine stuff if so desired after it being pretty heavily hard-wired into the franchise that continuity was pretty iron-clad and that the show reimagined little is something that's going to be hard for those of us who loved the stronger continuity between installments to adjust to. You got some who never cared about that, others, like that Ex Astris Scientia fan site guy, who can't accept it and vent over it (not saying anyone has to like it, but it's sad to see the site having gone downhill with his editorialization that Discovery is non-canon and false Star Trek due to being unable to accept anything new), or people like me, who find the revisionism annoying, but have kinda taken a "canon is broken" approach and try to take the new material on its own terms.

    Mileage may vary.
    Canon gets screwed with all the time. I actually enjoyed ENT when it first came out. I'm more concerned with tone and outlook. Not every episode has to be touchy feel but Trek has been about hope for the future. DIS s1 largely lost that hope, as did the PIC s1 overall. Dark subject matter + damaged characters + torture porn =/= good drama. DIS s2 and s3 moved away from the overwhelming trauma and cannibal rapists, and the show has improved drastically for it. PIC needs to move away from Picard having lost faith in everything he believed in (we saw Stewart play that already and far better in 'Logan') as well as heal the deeply traumatized, drug + alcohol-using crew in s2. Maybe the issue is that seasons now are just one long episode and we've traditionally gotten past the truly dark stuff by the end of the episode unless it's a 2 parter or short arc. Now the darkness is stretched out episode after episode. I loved DS9 (best written Trek ever) but even in the face of seasons-long war arcs, it never felt as oppressively hopeless as early DIS and PIC did. I'm very glad that Strange New Worlds will be returning to a more episodic format with a more optimistic outlook. DIS has turned around, too, and I hope PIC also will.

    I've loved Ex Astris for years mostly for the starship info and then the episode guides. I think he's coming around to the new era, though, just slowly.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  10. #745
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    I didn't really feel Picard was quite as hopeless as Discovery.

  11. #746
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I didn't really feel Picard was quite as hopeless as Discovery.
    Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...

    I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  12. #747

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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...

    I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.
    Legolas, as a child, gaining a father figure in Picard only for Picard to leave. The intergalactic version of "Going to the store for milk".

    Did I say Legolas? I meant Elnor.

  13. #748
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Is that the site that has all the gorgeous bridge illustrations? If so, that's sad.
    Ex Astris Scientia is a good page to get lots of good stuff about star trek. it is more indepth than trekmovie.com or trekcore.com or the official startrek.com website that is pretty bland and never really cared to visit again when they took down their discussion forums

    However I will just say, if you became a new fan of Star Trek because of the JJ Abrams movies and Alex Kurtzman shows, just don't visit Ex Astris that much. the runner of that site is one of those highly intellectual trekkies, who hates generic sci-fi plots and cgi action and yes... he has a big dislike for all the new Trek stuff.

    He rarely never grades any new Discovery and Picard episodes above a 6/10. Even the episode New Eden from Star Trek Discovery season 2 , that some of the superficial haters of the series were forced to praise because it was a great episode. He still gave it a 5/10.

    Wonder what score he gave the Picard episode, Nepenthe, which for many Trek fans was the main highlight of what they saw as a lukewarm Picard first season.

    However in all fairness to Ex Astris, he is one of the few who can explain logically why star trek in A post Enterprise era have all turned out mediocre movies and tv shows beyond the SJW Woke arguments and JJ Abrams was trying to turn star trek into star wars argument.
    Last edited by Castle; 07-23-2021 at 11:03 AM.

  14. #749

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    So we almost got Tom Paris for season 1, but since Robert Duncan McNeill is very busy these days (either directing or producing) the schedules never lined up.

  15. #750
    Astonishing Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Ex Astris Scientia is a good page to get lots of good stuff about star trek. it is more indepth than trekmovie.com or trekcore.com or the official startrek.com website that is pretty bland and never really cared to visit again when they took down their discussion forums

    However I will just say, if you became a new fan of Star Trek because of the JJ Abrams movies and Alex Kurtzman shows, just don't visit Ex Astris that much. the runner of that site is one of those highly intellectual trekkies, who hates generic sci-fi plots and cgi action and yes... he has a big dislike for all the new Trek stuff.

    He rarely never grades any new Discovery and Picard episodes above a 6/10. Even the episode New Eden from Star Trek Discovery season 2 , that some of the superficial haters of the series were forced to praise because it was a great episode. He still gave it a 5/10.

    Wonder what score he gave the Picard episode, Nepenthe, which for many Trek fans was the main highlight of what they saw as a lukewarm Picard first season.

    However in all fairness to Ex Astris, he is one of the few who can explain logically why star trek in A post Enterprise era have all turned out mediocre movies and tv shows beyond the SJW Woke arguments and JJ Abrams was trying to turn star trek into star wars argument.
    That's just laughable, there is nothing logical to his bias at all.

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