Page 51 of 55 FirstFirst ... 41474849505152535455 LastLast
Results 751 to 765 of 817
  1. #751
    Astonishing Member Exciter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,914

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...

    I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.
    While all that was terrible, to me truly the lowest moment was after Rafi had to make a call and sacrifice another important friendship in order to get Picard what he wanted. Picard watched her do it, saw her reaction, and then gave a “bravo” clapping ovation with a big smile on his face like it was great. I was like, who is this character? Because this is not Jean-Luc Picard.
    Age of Marvels and DC Next Dawn - Fan Made Solicitation Games, make your pulls now! Want back story? Check the Wiki!

  2. #752
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    9,982

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...

    I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.
    Those are all heavy aspects of the series and I wasn't a fan of all of them. But I guess it didn't seem as hopeless as the whole Federation falling apart

  3. #753
    Astonishing Member Castle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    2,571

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...

    I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.
    You missed mentioning Soji's twin sister and her boyfriend getting murdered all in the first episode by Romulan assassins.

    This new shows like Picard and Discovery don't know Trek is meant to be optimistic, while at the same time still tackling interesting social and complex themes.
    Last edited by Castle; 07-23-2021 at 03:26 PM.

  4. #754
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,371

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    You missed mentioning Soji's twin sister and her boyfriend getting murdered all in the first episode by Romulan assassins.

    This new shows like Picard and Discovery don't know Trek is meant to be optimistic, while at the same time still tackling interesting social and complex themes.
    It sure is bloody and brutal I'll give you that. I felt like I was watching Game of Thrones in space which is not a good thing, IMO.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  5. #755
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    Picard was an angry old man disillusioned with and separated from what gave his life meaning. 7 was betrayed by the first person she truly loved, leading to the torture porn disfiguring of her 'son' and her being forced to mercy kill him. Deanna and Riker lost a son after a long and horrible illness. The Romulans were disenfranchised refugees. Mars was wiped clean of life by the synths. Jurati murdered her former lover then tried to kill herself. Rafi was a drug-addicted conspiracy theorist living in a trailer, rejected by her son. Rios was a drunk, emotionally scarred loner disillusioned with Starfleet. The treatment of the XBs by the Romulans...

    I'm sure I'm missing things but there was little positive in s1 for me. I genuinely hope it improves in s2.
    I think this is a little... unfair. YES these were bleak things, but a lot of hope and love and support came out of those events. Picard helped mend broken people, to the point they nearly all found peace by the end. That's surely very optimistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Wonder what score he gave the Picard episode, Nepenthe, which for many Trek fans was the main highlight of what they saw as a lukewarm Picard first season.
    According to whom?
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  6. #756
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    479′S 12643′W
    Posts
    12,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    I think this is a little... unfair. YES these were bleak things, but a lot of hope and love and support came out of those events. Picard helped mend broken people, to the point they nearly all found peace by the end. That's surely very optimistic?
    As I mentioned in another post, maybe it felt so hopeless because the season was one long episode of hopelessness instead of self-contained episodes or arcs of hopelessness with closure at the end. I don't watch Trek to be beaten over the head with drug-using, personality disorder-riddled, broken characters trapped in horrible situations for entire seasons at an end. If I wanted that, I'd look in the mirror.

    It's like my reasoning with Game of Thrones or Walking Dead. How can viewers come back week after week to watch characters be emotionally and physically broken ad nauseum until they finally [mercifully] die horribly? If watching people suffer is entertainment for you, go watch something else. Star Trek shouldn't be about that, even if the surviving characters find 2 minutes of vague happiness after a season of being dragged and pain sticked through Gre'thor.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  7. #757
    Non-fanboy Member Cel's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Level 42
    Posts
    451

    Default

    I've had a pet theory for awhile that some people do like to see other people suffer. It makes them feel better about their own lives if they see someone who has it far worse than they do. I might be way off base about that, but it might be a case of seeing a character go through pain and tragedy and think "My life sucks--but it's way better than that guy's." And then they follow the character to see if he or she triumphs, fails, or joins a growing body count.

    The original Star Trek series was something of a counter to the real-world crap going on at the time, IMO. War, race riots, the threat of nuclear annihilation. TOS didn't depict a continuation of that, but rather a future in which not only did humanity survive, it got better. It came together and went forward as one people. That's been the general "optimism" of Trek, and it's still there in every iteration of Trek, even when it sometimes takes a dark turn.
    "Ignore them. They're nothing but a bunch of basement dwellers who spend all day whining on the 'net. Not a single open-minded one in the bunch."
    --Andre Briggs, Justice League International #1

  8. #758
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    As I mentioned in another post, maybe it felt so hopeless because the season was one long episode of hopelessness instead of self-contained episodes or arcs of hopelessness with closure at the end. I don't watch Trek to be beaten over the head with drug-using, personality disorder-riddled, broken characters trapped in horrible situations for entire seasons at an end.
    But again, I think you're being overly harsh. The episodes were full of bonding, and love and support and affection. You are just choosing not to see it. You focus on the lose of Troi's son, but don't acknowledge all the good feels those characters have for one another, for being together, and for coming through it stronger. Moments of sadness and trouble does not = never-ending despair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cel View Post
    I've had a pet theory for awhile that some people do like to see other people suffer. It makes them feel better about their own lives if they see someone who has it far worse than they do. I might be way off base about that, but it might be a case of seeing a character go through pain and tragedy and think "My life sucks--but it's way better than that guy's." And then they follow the character to see if he or she triumphs, fails, or joins a growing body count.
    From a narrative point of view, for those who care about that, you need to over-come adversity for the victory to possess meaning. Achieving success when it was little to no burden is just bad writing. Even characters in Studio Ghibli have to hit rock bottom, to make the climb back up all the sweeter.
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  9. #759
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    479′S 12643′W
    Posts
    12,892

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post
    But again, I think you're being overly harsh. The episodes were full of bonding, and love and support and affection. You are just choosing not to see it. You focus on the lose of Troi's son, but don't acknowledge all the good feels those characters have for one another, for being together, and for coming through it stronger. Moments of sadness and trouble does not = never-ending despair.
    I consider killing children for plot development even lower than fridging women. And while I think you're being far too optimistic about Picard s1 and the IMHO vastly unnecessary traumas its characters were subjected to, I am at least glad you found enjoyment in it even though I for the most part didn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  10. #760
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    12,307

    Default

    Finding pleasure in another's pain is called schadenfreude.

    It is not a theory but a real thing, FWIW.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  11. #761

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Finding pleasure in another's pain is called schadenfreude.

    It is not a theory but a real thing, FWIW.
    Intersting. And apparently it has an English equivalent, "epicaricacy".

  12. #762
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,655

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    Intersting. And apparently it has an English equivalent, "epicaricacy".
    Tbf, and I guess that's the idiosyncrasies of the English language, but as a native English speaker, I've heard schadenfreude used far more often than epicaricacy.

  13. #763

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Tbf, and I guess that's the idiosyncrasies of the English language, but as a native English speaker, I've heard schadenfreude used far more often than epicaricacy.
    I'm a native English speaker and I didn't know either existed before today. But yeah, while both are rare, schadenfreude is...less rare?

    But still, as Spock would say, "Fascinating."

  14. #764
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Bristol, UK
    Posts
    8,406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    I consider killing children for plot development even lower than fridging women.
    Oh come on, telling a story about a child who died (a character that has never existed before that story) is absolutely NOT the same thing as #womeninrefridgerators. COME ON! That's just... it's pretty ridiculous. I 100% understand that clearly children can be a trigger for some people, and I 100% respect your right to be upset. But 'killing' a fictional child that never existed till that moment is not in the same league as killing an established female character just to give the man something to be sad about.

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    And while I think you're being far too optimistic about Picard s1 and the IMHO vastly unnecessary traumas its characters were subjected to, I am at least glad you found enjoyment in it even though I for the most part didn't.
    Maybe there's a happy middle ground, between me being too optimistic, and you being too pessimistic, that we both need to find.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    Finding pleasure in another's pain is called schadenfreude.
    The fact you don't all know every single word to every single song in Avenue Q leaves me SHOOKETH!!!
    "We are Shakespeare. We are Michelangelo. We are Tchaikovsky. We are Turing. We are Mercury. We are Wilde. We are Lincoln, Lorca, Leonardo da Vinci. We are Alexander the Great. We are Fredrick the Great. We are Rustin. We are Addams. We are Marsha! Marsha Marsha Marsha! We so generous, we DeGeneres. We are Ziggy Stardust hooked to the silver screen. Controversially we are Malcolm X. We are Plato. We are Aristotle. We are RuPaul, god dammit! And yes, we are Woolf."

  15. #765
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    West Coast, USA
    Posts
    12,307

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    Tbf, and I guess that's the idiosyncrasies of the English language, but as a native English speaker, I've heard schadenfreude used far more often than epicaricacy.
    The German word appears to have a more specific definition than the English one, too.

    It is oddly more satisfying to say, as well. Good figure ..
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate Grey View Post
    I'm a native English speaker and I didn't know either existed before today. But yeah, while both are rare, schadenfreude is...less rare?

    But still, as Spock would say, "Fascinating."
    Thanks for the new word, BTW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran_Frost View Post

    The fact you don't all know every single word to every single song in Avenue Q leaves me SHOOKETH!!!
    I love Avenue Q.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •