Star Trek: Picard

[nx01a]

Considering all the wholesome good will he's attracting, Paramount would be insane not to do Star Trek: La Forge.

[BeastieRunner]

Considering all the wholesome good will he's attracting, Paramount would be insane not to do Star Trek: La Forge.

Why not just a new show where he's the Captain of the enterprise?

[nx01a]

Why not just a new show where he's the Captain of the enterprise?

I'm hoping it's revealed he's the Ent F's captain!

[BeastieRunner]

I'm hoping it's revealed he's the Ent F's captain!

I was under the impression he was the captain??

[Jokerz79]

Shouldn't Geordi being wearing command red if the Captain of the Enterprise F?

[Robotech Master]

Shouldn't Geordi being wearing command red if the Captain of the Enterprise F?

Well circa late DS9 and First Contact everyone was purple, but I don't know about now.

[Ramsay Snow]

I decided to finally check out the newer Star Trek shows recently. Picard, Strange New Worlds, and I currently have the misfortune of being in the middle of season 1 of Discovery. I'll check out Short Treks after I finish Discovery (If I'm able to get through this abysmal series).

I'll start off by saying I grew up watching the original series during my childhood from the early to mid-80s. Then Next Generation came around, as well as Deep Space Nine. I loved all 3 series, with DS9 being my favorite due to the deeper level of characterization and more intricate storylines. Of course, all 3 series are flawed, but were great for their time.....I honestly find it easier to re-watch the original series over the other two nowadays. The original series was campy as all hell, but it has a certain level of panache that makes it enjoyable, regardless. And what you have to love about TNG & DS9 (as well as Voyager) is their consistent adherence to canon. As consistent as any TV series can possibly be, anyway.

Voyager I found extremely dull. It had a few cool characters (Seven of Nine & the doctor hologram), but good god was that show boring to watch. They had limitless potential to bring in all sorts of new worlds and characters, and that was what we ended up with? Enterprise was worse, and the special effects they tried to use back then (such as the Gorn) came across as goofy.

Then there are the films. I loved Wrath of Khan when I was a kid, but if I look at the entire movie series honestly, they all sucked. Most of them were too goofy. First Contact had great elements to it, but it wasn't as good as it should have been and the comedic relief came across as lame......The only old films I still re-watch are Wrath of Khan and Nemesis, but I can't watch the entire films. I just re-watch the Khan scenes in Wrath of Khan (Montalban was gold), and I re-watch the Picard/Shinzon scenes in Nemesis (Watching Stewart & Hardy's scenes together is magic, but it's a downright horrible film, otherwise)......I will say Insurrection wasn't that bad, it just felt like a run of the mill TNG episode.

And I'm an old-school Star Trek fan that loved the two JJ Abrams movies. They're not my old Trek, but they were a breath of fresh air and kind of melded a Star Trek + Star Wars tone to make it more palatable to general audiences, but didn't dumb the storylines down enough for me to dislike it......Star Trek Beyond was crap. Just felt tonally different than anything I've seen of Star Trek, it was a fast-paced rendition that had a lot of action but was weak in terms of the writing (plot, dialog, etc...).

As for season 1 of Picard, I thought it was brilliant and it's now my favorite Star Trek season of all-time. The finale was a little underwhelming, but, overall, I thought this season was great and I've been having a good laugh at all the posts in this thread nitpicking season 1 and a few people actually trying to claim Discovery was somehow better.....I thought season 2 was just OK, it was about on the level with TNG & DS9. It had some quirks and some inconsistencies with the plot, but I didn't hate it. It is what it is, an obvious and kind of goofy homage to Voyage Home.

Strange New Worlds was pretty damn good and I'm looking forward to season 2. It wasn't perfect, but it's a pretty good series so far.

Now to Discovery. The first two episodes weren't that great, but they were OK. I was able to look past the Iron Man suit, the bald and drastically different-looking Klingons, and other inconsistencies to Star Trek canon (I believe the different looking Klingons were said to be a subspecies of Klingon we don't see in the later years, yet it seems like all 24 houses look like that in this series).....But once we got to episode 3, the show went completely downhill. So far, we get some gigantic caterpillar-like creature which annihilates a group of Klingons and kills some of the Discovery crew, but then in the next episode it's in a stasis field, and Michael Burnham quickly learns to tame the creature like she's the caterpillar-whisperer. Then we quickly go from rampaging beast to Free Willy, and the creature is somehow able to navigate the ship's experimental new warp drive. Phenomenal writing there, my suspension of disbelief was knocked out of the park with that 2-episode mindbender......Then we get Harry Mudd suddenly being a complete badass who can decimate an entire crew single-handedly and take over a ship. Time crystal be damned, Mudd's suddenly more diabolical than Khan Noonien Singh, himself! (and almost his physical equal!) When did good old Harcourt turn out to be genetically engineered? That's the only explanation for this. And how did he become completely castrated by the time he eventually meets Captain Kirk & co? Then that gay dude is immune to the time crystal shenanigans and keeps having to try to stop Mudd's plot, and toward the end a few of the crew suddenly magically remember **** from the previous time-loops and are able to stop Mudd.

Discovery's just horrible, I'd rank it below Voyager & Enterprise. Just sloppy writing, I hope it gets better. Discovery feels like a cross between Star Trek Beyond and The Orville.....And I have 3 and a half seasons to go, woe is me. It's kind of sad how bad Discovery is when they put such a huge focus on minority casting (both ethnically & gender-wise).

And I'm definitely looking forward to season 3 of Picard.

And to the people pooping on season 1 of Picard? Pish-posh to you naysayers. Same goes to the Kelvin Timeline haters. Star Trek Beyond deserves to be scoffed at, but the two JJ Abrams films were fantastic!

[Powerboy]

I decided to finally check out the newer Star Trek shows recently. Picard, Strange New Worlds, and I currently have the misfortune of being in the middle of season 1 of Discovery. I'll check out Short Treks after I finish Discovery (If I'm able to get through this abysmal series).

I'll start off by saying I grew up watching the original series during my childhood from the early to mid-80s. Then Next Generation came around, as well as Deep Space Nine. I loved all 3 series, with DS9 being my favorite due to the deeper level of characterization and more intricate storylines. Of course, all 3 series are flawed, but were great for their time.....I honestly find it easier to re-watch the original series over the other two nowadays. The original series was campy as all hell, but it has a certain level of panache that makes it enjoyable, regardless. And what you have to love about TNG & DS9 (as well as Voyager) is their consistent adherence to canon. As consistent as any TV series can possibly be, anyway.

Voyager I found extremely dull. It had a few cool characters (Seven of Nine & the doctor hologram), but good god was that show boring to watch. They had limitless potential to bring in all sorts of new worlds and characters, and that was what we ended up with? Enterprise was worse, and the special effects they tried to use back then (such as the Gorn) came across as goofy.

Then there are the films. I loved Wrath of Khan when I was a kid, but if I look at the entire movie series honestly, they all sucked. Most of them were too goofy. First Contact had great elements to it, but it wasn't as good as it should have been and the comedic relief came across as lame......The only old films I still re-watch are Wrath of Khan and Nemesis, but I can't watch the entire films. I just re-watch the Khan scenes in Wrath of Khan (Montalban was gold), and I re-watch the Picard/Shinzon scenes in Nemesis (Watching Stewart & Hardy's scenes together is magic, but it's a downright horrible film, otherwise)......I will say Insurrection wasn't that bad, it just felt like a run of the mill TNG episode.

And I'm an old-school Star Trek fan that loved the two JJ Abrams movies. They're not my old Trek, but they were a breath of fresh air and kind of melded a Star Trek + Star Wars tone to make it more palatable to general audiences, but didn't dumb the storylines down enough for me to dislike it......Star Trek Beyond was crap. Just felt tonally different than anything I've seen of Star Trek, it was a fast-paced rendition that had a lot of action but was weak in terms of the writing (plot, dialog, etc...).

As for season 1 of Picard, I thought it was brilliant and it's now my favorite Star Trek season of all-time. The finale was a little underwhelming, but, overall, I thought this season was great and I've been having a good laugh at all the posts in this thread nitpicking season 1 and a few people actually trying to claim Discovery was somehow better.....I thought season 2 was just OK, it was about on the level with TNG & DS9. It had some quirks and some inconsistencies with the plot, but I didn't hate it. It is what it is, an obvious and kind of goofy homage to Voyage Home.

Strange New Worlds was pretty damn good and I'm looking forward to season 2. It wasn't perfect, but it's a pretty good series so far.

Now to Discovery. The first two episodes weren't that great, but they were OK. I was able to look past the Iron Man suit, the bald and drastically different-looking Klingons, and other inconsistencies to Star Trek canon (I believe the different looking Klingons were said to be a subspecies of Klingon we don't see in the later years, yet it seems like all 24 houses look like that in this series).....But once we got to episode 3, the show went completely downhill. So far, we get some gigantic caterpillar-like creature which annihilates a group of Klingons and kills some of the Discovery crew, but then in the next episode it's in a stasis field, and Michael Burnham quickly learns to tame the creature like she's the caterpillar-whisperer. Then we quickly go from rampaging beast to Free Willy, and the creature is somehow able to navigate the ship's experimental new warp drive. Phenomenal writing there, my suspension of disbelief was knocked out of the park with that 2-episode mindbender......Then we get Harry Mudd suddenly being a complete badass who can decimate an entire crew single-handedly and take over a ship. Time crystal be damned, Mudd's suddenly more diabolical than Khan Noonien Singh, himself! (and almost his physical equal!) When did good old Harcourt turn out to be genetically engineered? That's the only explanation for this. And how did he become completely castrated by the time he eventually meets Captain Kirk & co? Then that gay dude is immune to the time crystal shenanigans and keeps having to try to stop Mudd's plot, and toward the end a few of the crew suddenly magically remember **** from the previous time-loops and are able to stop Mudd.

Discovery's just horrible, I'd rank it below Voyager & Enterprise. Just sloppy writing, I hope it gets better. Discovery feels like a cross between Star Trek Beyond and The Orville.....And I have 3 and a half seasons to go, woe is me. It's kind of sad how bad Discovery is when they put such a huge focus on minority casting (both ethnically & gender-wise).

And I'm definitely looking forward to season 3 of Picard.

And to the people pooping on season 1 of Picard? Pish-posh to you naysayers. Same goes to the Kelvin Timeline haters. Star Trek Beyond deserves to be scoffed at, but the two JJ Abrams films were fantastic!

There's something I once read to the effect that we like or dislike something at some core level and then backtrack and try to find reasons why. That makes sense. Of course we would. But this kind of takes it over the top on some things.

For instance, the whole thing with the creature that traveled through space by something equivalent to warping. Why, yes. They thought it was a monster but found out it was the victim. I think it was called the Horta or something. The "Gay guy" has been spending like a whole season and more using himself as some kind of conduit for a kind of space drive that mucks with time. How could he possibly be immune to the memory effects of a device that keeps repeating a day? As to other people starting to have glimpses of memory, you should take that up with lots of revered science fiction writers that used the idea that people will gradually start catching on that they are repeating events (Heinlein and Finney, just to name a few).

On the other hand, continuity. I have to think of this show as a prequel to some other Star Trek in some other universe. Not that continuity has ever been the big thing in Star Trek that people like to believe it is. But yes. How did Harry Mudd go from being a ruthless murderer to the not that bad of a guy but just a conman who wants to make a buck in TOS? Black Ops warp drive (or whatever they call it) bad. But, come on. Whip it back out in an emergency. Use it to rescue Voyager. But, no. A suspicious person might think it never got invented in the past so it couldn't be used to rescue Voyager. Likewise, all of this stuff with Spock and the red angel. The real problem is just that it has no impact on the future and it's hard to imagine Spock in TOS being who he was if all of this stuff had already happened. So, best to just take it as an alternate reality.

Yet, those are precisely the complaints about "Picard", that the whole premise is built on "Continuity be damned in almost every detail".

[Jokerz79]

I hate DISCO & Loved SNW yet I can't see either as Canon to TOS and do threat them as in a Parallel Universe.

Power boy is right IMO if you like something you're much more willing to make excuses and be lenient on it vs if you dislike something and you'll notice all it's flaws.

[Ramsay Snow]

There's something I once read to the effect that we like or dislike something at some core level and then backtrack and try to find reasons why. That makes sense. Of course we would. But this kind of takes it over the top on some things.

I didn't take it over the top at all, it's just sloppy writing. The fact you're trying to defend that laughable show speaks volumes.

And I decided to ask a friend if he's seen Discovery, he has and he said the show gets worse by season 2 and doesn't get any better in season 3. He described it as a convoluted mess, but he just rode with it. He said it gets better with season 4.....I'll see if I can stomach season 2. If not, I'll skip over to quatro. He did say the Pike appearances are the best part of season 2.

For instance, the whole thing with the creature that traveled through space by something equivalent to warping. Why, yes. They thought it was a monster but found out it was the victim. I think it was called the Horta or something.

Why, yes, the violent creature was found to be a victim which coincidentally was able to channel their warp drive and pilot them across the universe. Wonderful plot device there. This, along with Michael Burnham's taming of the shrew, all took place in record time. The pacing of this show makes the events even more believable.

The "Gay guy" has been spending like a whole season and more using himself as some kind of conduit for a kind of space drive that mucks with time. How could he possibly be immune to the memory effects of a device that keeps repeating a day? As to other people starting to have glimpses of memory, you should take that up with lots of revered science fiction writers that used the idea that people will gradually start catching on that they are repeating events (Heinlein and Finney, just to name a few).

I referred to him as "that gay dude", not "Gay guy".........I'd appreciate it if you quote me accurately. And I had no issue with that gay dude not being affected by the time crystal, it was explained in-story in a plausible manner (as plausible as you can get with sci-fi, anyway). That said, he hadn't been spending a whole season (and more) using himself as a time conduit. He had actually just started doing that the previous episode, if memory serves. And the reason he wasn't affected has no correlation with the other crew members, so, yes, the rest of the crew magically remembering things all of a sudden was sloppy writing. If they had given a brief explanation or example as to why they suddenly remembered things, that would make it a little more believable for audiences. Aside from people like you who will make random excuses just because you enjoy this show.

[Powerboy]

I didn't take it over the top at all, it's just sloppy writing. The fact you're trying to defend that laughable show speaks volumes.

And I decided to ask a friend if he's seen Discovery, he has and he said the show gets worse by season 2 and doesn't get any better in season 3. He described it as a convoluted mess, but he just rode with it. He said it gets better with season 4.....I'll see if I can stomach season 2. If not, I'll skip over to quatro. He did say the Pike appearances are the best part of season 2.





Why, yes, the violent creature was found to be a victim which coincidentally was able to channel their warp drive and pilot them across the universe. Wonderful plot device there. This, along with Michael Burnham's taming of the shrew, all took place in record time. The pacing of this show makes the events even more believable.





I referred to him as "that gay dude", not "Gay guy".........I'd appreciate it if you quote me accurately. And I had no issue with that gay dude not being affected by the time crystal, it was explained in-story in a plausible manner (as plausible as you can get with sci-fi, anyway). That said, he hadn't been spending a whole season (and more) using himself as a time conduit. He had actually just started doing that the previous episode, if memory serves. And the reason he wasn't affected has no correlation with the other crew members, so, yes, the rest of the crew magically remembering things all of a sudden was sloppy writing. If they had given a brief explanation or example as to why they suddenly remembered things, that would make it a little more believable for audiences. Aside from people like you who will make random excuses just because you enjoy this show.

Ah, yes. Meanwhile, "Picard" is just "some quirks and inconsistencies".

[Ramsay Snow]

I hate DISCO & Loved SNW yet I can't see either as Canon to TOS and do threat them as in a Parallel Universe.

Power boy is right IMO if you like something you're much more willing to make excuses and be lenient on it vs if you dislike something and you'll notice all it's flaws.

You guys are probably right, it should be seen as a parallel universe.....Although the creators should probably state that instead of giving lame explanations which don't make sense (Such as the Klingons looking the way they do).

And, yeah, one is willing to excuse certain flaws in a show or movie they like (I tend to acknowledge them but will admit they don't bother me enough to dislike it)....But people also have different standards, and Discovery is ridiculously bad. It's not simply a question of whether things are canon or not, the show's a joke. The writing, the pacing, the dialog. It feels like a Syfy original with higher production values. Hell, I'm almost finished with the first season and the only character names I remember are Saru & Michael Burnham (Sarek doesn't count, seen him before). I know Jason Isaacs is in this, but I don't care enough to know the captain's name.

[Ramsay Snow]

Ah, yes. Meanwhile, "Picard" is just "some quirks and inconsistencies".

Why don't you list all these supposed quirks and inconsistencies and we'll compare them side-by-side with the multitude of flaws which exude from that horrible Orville/ST Beyond hybrid mess known as Discovery.

[Powerboy]

You guys are probably right, it should be seen as a parallel universe.....Although the creators should probably state that instead of giving lame explanations which don't make sense (Such as the Klingons looking the way they do).

And, yeah, one is willing to excuse certain flaws in a show or movie they like (I tend to acknowledge them but will admit they don't bother me enough to dislike it)....But people also have different standards, and Discovery is ridiculously bad. It's not simply a question of whether things are canon or not, the show's a joke. The writing, the pacing, the dialog. It feels like a Syfy original with higher production values. Hell, I'm almost finished with the first season and the only character names I remember are Saru & Michael Burnham (Sarek doesn't count, seen him before). I know Jason Isaacs is in this, but I don't care enough to know the captain's name.

The producers do seem intent upon insisting that this will all work out as canon. But I don't see how. Even if it somehow all gets explained, it doesn't work from a characterization point of view. There's no way the characters in TOS would have been who they were had they had these experiences.

I do like SNW so far and "Lower Decks" is an incredibly wonderful surprise, what I took to be a fun, comedy, animated non-canon show that turns out great and even kind of works in canon.

I do kind of slog my way through Discovery, more because it's just not believable as canon than anything else. The Harry Mudd thing is an example of how, being a current show, it think the villain has to be a murdering psycho rather than giving us a believable Harry Mudd.

[Powerboy]

Why don't you list all these supposed quirks and inconsistencies and we'll compare them side-by-side with the multitude of flaws which exude from that horrible Orville/ST Beyond hybrid mess known as Discovery.

Warning. Talking about Season 2 of "Picard" here. Regarding Season One, I think there's a feeling that the very society of the Federation has become Dystopian or at least very different. People living in trailers? Some of it I can look at and say that it's just the Federation slipping from its values and needing to get back to them but things like that seem never to get questioned in the season.

spoilers:

The problem with "Picard" (and I am referring more to season 2 here where it really goes off the deep end, not so much season one) that I think people have is that it feels like the very core of the story goes against established continuity, particularly regarding Picard's parents. Sure, he could have a delusion that his mother lived to be an old woman and that his father was some anti-Starfleet guy who thought they should all stay home. But that's verified by later events such as Picard visiting home in the series and his brother verifying things about his father and still later events where his brother and nephew die because modern fire-fighting tech was never installed in the house, not by his father or his brother. "Picard" gives us a story where his parents were drastically different. Sure, we only get a glimpse of his mother as an old woman in "Tapestry". Still, Starfleet psychiatrists must be the worst or Star Fleet officers don't have to go through any sort of psychological testing or something. Because you'd think they'd catch that Picard thinks his Mom lived to be very old instead of dying when he was a child, along with the delusion that his father was never in Starfleet. And that's not even getting into what's happening with Q, a premise so inherently unbelievable that they don't even try to explain it.

end of spoilers