Star Trek: Picard

[thwhtGuardian]

A true, blue Lt. Commander Seven would be a great foil. Throw in LeForge and that other helmsman that all seem to be questioning him, and they'll be a fine crew.

And he only started playing safe after Wolf 359.

This little jaunt probably will wake him up a bit.


People kind of forget that Jack showed up to meet Picard and he kind of blew it, too.

In Star Trek terms, this was an emotional Kobayashi Maru for Beverly.

Even if she told him, these events would probably be playing out sooner than later.

He didn't blow it though, that scene was more than a little poorly written.

If you literally don't think you have any family left then there is nothing wrong with believing that belonging to Star Fleet is all the family you need, plus who knows if he really even meant it? In the context of that scene he's more or less in graduation speech mode amping up the new recruits, so of course he's going to be "ra-ra! Go,Federation!" and Jack had been watching the entire thing so he would have known that. If we were meant to see that as Picard screwing his relationship with Jack it didn't work and I doubt it was there to make Jack look petulant so the only answer is poor writing. It happens, even when a show is otherwise pretty fun like this season.

[CaptCleghorn]

He didn't blow it though, that scene was more than a little poorly written.

If you literally don't think you have any family left then there is nothing wrong with believing that belonging to Star Fleet is all the family you need, plus who knows if he really even meant it? In the context of that scene he's more or less in graduation speech mode amping up the new recruits, so of course he's going to be "ra-ra! Go,Federation!" and Jack had been watching the entire thing so he would have known that. If we were meant to see that as Picard screwing his relationship with Jack it didn't work and I doubt it was there to make Jack look petulant so the only answer is poor writing. It happens, even when a show is otherwise pretty fun like this season.

The scene was Picard's no win situation. He didn't know it at the time, though. Based on what Picard knew at the time, he did everything right and what we would have expected. Had he known his son was asking the question, his answer may or may not have been different and we are left to contemplate what that would have been had Picard known.

Jack, I assume, lived for the most part in a setting where he needed to make quick decisions based on minimal contact and explanation. I totally believe that's what happened there. Jack decided based on hearing a speech for Picard and a brief statement that Picard wasn't interested in dealing with a son. What is a question is whether Picard truly believed it at the time.

[Nate Grey]

But I think the point is that Jack was there at all. Picard may or may not have meant what he said: as was mentioned it was at the tailend of a Go Federation! speech, plus it could be simple acquiescence. Nothing wrong with thinking Starfleet is enough when you think you have no other family left. But now we DO know Jack was lying when he told Picard the same ep he never needed a father nor wanted one. Or, even if its true, its still a direct reaction or defense to being "rejected" by Picard all those years ago.

[CaptCleghorn]

But I think the point is that Jack was there at all. Picard may or may not have meant what he said: as was mentioned it was at the tailend of a Go Federation! speech, plus it could be simple acquiescence. Nothing wrong with thinking Starfleet is enough when you think you have no other family left. But now we DO know Jack was lying when he told Picard the same ep he never needed a father nor wanted one. Or, even if its true, its still a direct reaction or defense to being "rejected" by Picard all those years ago.

Jack was definitely lying about never needing or wanting a father. I do think (and desperately want to believe) that Beverly was telling the truth when she said Jack never wanted to see him. From Jack's point of view he had heard all about the 1701-D crew and Jean Luc and somehow got to Earth to find him for the scene without Beverly knowing. Jack is a very prideful young man and his admitting weakness in a crisis situation like this season that isn't happening. Also, what has Jack seen that shows him Jean Luc is good daddy material? Mom took him away from Picard. The story about Picard and OG Jack stealing a shuttle to get laid isn't exactly material that a newly reunited father and son share to convey fatherly feelings.

Some of the 1701-D crew greatly changed with parenthood. Beverly ran to protect her son. I am not arguing good or bad point here. Riker's son's death affected him. TNG got very little into family, unlike DS9 which easily is the most family oriented Trek show. Having grown and seeing peers also grow, marry, and have children, they do change. Often they try to go back to old styles with old friends, but that doesn't always work out. A powerful theme in this show has been about how people change. Kids will do that to you.

[ChrisIII]

All that aside I think it's pretty cool Gates has a pretty big part (Well, after episode 2 at least.) I think she was the most sidelined character in the TNG movies (Possibly in part because Picard spent a lot of time with the female guest leads in First Contact and Insurrection instead?)

If anything she seemed to have been involved in more comic relief (Data tossing her overboard, the Duras commenting on her looks, the Doctor cameo in First Contact, the Insurrection boob joke etc) than any real material.

[Jokerz79]

Most of the crew was sidelined in the TNG films for Picard and Data.

Generations: Picard has midlife crisis due to deaths in family and Data is dealing with emotions.

1st Contact: Picard deals with PTSD and Data is being seduced by the Borg Queen.

Insurrection: Picard goes rogue and falls in love and Data goes Rogue 1st.

Nemesis: Picard deals with Clone and Data deals with basically a dumber clone in the former of B4

Although the women of TNG faired worst Beverly as mentioned, Guinan went MIA for most of the films, and Deanna crashed both Enterprises and got mind raped (Again).

[thwhtGuardian]

The scene was Picard's no win situation. He didn't know it at the time, though. Based on what Picard knew at the time, he did everything right and what we would have expected. Had he known his son was asking the question, his answer may or may not have been different and we are left to contemplate what that would have been had Picard known.

Jack, I assume, lived for the most part in a setting where he needed to make quick decisions based on minimal contact and explanation. I totally believe that's what happened there. Jack decided based on hearing a speech for Picard and a brief statement that Picard wasn't interested in dealing with a son. What is a question is whether Picard truly believed it at the time.

It isn't a no win situation at all, not as written anyway unless you think Picard would have given the same answer if Jack had said, "My name is Jack, my mom is Beverly Crusher and she said you're my father...do you value starfleet over family?"

[ChrisIII]

Guinan being absent was OK I think, Whoopi's of course a pretty big name so it makes sense she couldn't be available for every film.

Think Riker and especially Worf did have some pretty good scenes in the TNG films (First Contact in particular with Worf). Geordi less so but he had some good interactions with Data and Insurrection had a great scene where his natural eyes return.


It'd be cool to see Ogawa again as she was Beverly's head nurse and friend, and even made it into the first two movies.

[BeastieRunner]

It isn't a no win situation at all, not as written anyway unless you think Picard would have given the same answer if Jack had said, "My name is Jack, my mom is Beverly Crusher and she said you're my father...do you value starfleet over family?"

It didn't help any.

IF ... if ... Picard was remotely regretful of a lack of family, Jack may have approached him. But he saw that his mom was right.

I kind of see Beverly's point when Picard goes all noble to save his son of a few hours over the safety of the crew and Riker calls him out on it.

It's kind of like a belated grand gesture.

But the melodramatic part is that they all (Jack, Picard, Beverly) are lying to each other and they all don't know the full story.

That makes these debates fun IMHO.

[thwhtGuardian]

It didn't help any.

IF ... if ... Picard was remotely regretful of a lack of family, Jack may have approached him. But he saw that his mom was right.

I kind of see Beverly's point when Picard goes all noble to save his son of a few hours over the safety of the crew and Riker calls him out on it.

It's kind of like a belated grand gesture.

But the melodramatic part is that they all (Jack, Picard, Beverly) are lying to each other and they all don't know the full story.

That makes these debates fun IMHO.

There's no reason to be regretful for him at that point, he literally doesn't know any other way.

It was just a poorly written scene, you could see what they were trying to do; illustrate that Jack did try to reach out but was rebuffed at the last moment by his biological father's reputation...but in execution it just failed because the context was so bold and in your face.

Basically, they tried to have it both ways because of course we in the audience love Jean Luc so we don't want to see him as an absentee father but they want us to feel for Jack too so they don't want him to come across as cold and uninterested as he originally appeared but by not picking one side it did neither justice and ultimately failed to really achieve its aim.

[Pinsir]

The weakest episode by far, but its still pretty good. I felt the Ro Lauren thing is pretty fan service-y, but eh, I'll let them get away with it.

FYI, I caught an episode of Mandalorian by happenstance, the one that recently aired, and uh, boring much?

Addendum: I really don't like the hatred certain people display towards Raffi. There is no such thing as a bad character, just characters written by bad authors. She's written much better here than in Season 1 + 2 (like everything else).

[CaptCleghorn]

It isn't a no win situation at all, not as written anyway unless you think Picard would have given the same answer if Jack had said, "My name is Jack, my mom is Beverly Crusher and she said you're my father...do you value starfleet over family?"

My mentioning the no win situation was that Picard either disappoints his son, or the cadets.

[Donald]

I'm not sure how I'll feel when Jack is revealed to be a changeling and the real Jack Crusher is dead.

Jack is real but Picard was fake. The real Picard said he got called away and a Changeling fathered Jack. The voice and red effect is the "Changeling-goo-pool" calling out to him.

[thwhtGuardian]

My mentioning the no win situation was that Picard either disappoints his son, or the cadets.

It isn't that either, although the answer was pat and expected, "Starfleet is your family now, enjoy the start of the rest of your lives!" they wouldn't have been disappointed by the hero of the Federation talking about the road he didn't travel either.

[Jokerz79]

I think the answer Picard gave the cadets was the truth but if he knew Jack was his son it would have been more nuanced. Something along the lines of

Jack my family Parents, Brother, and Nephew are all long dead and I miss them greatly but that doesn't mean I don't have a family the bonds I formed with certain members of my crew including your mother are as strong and as meaningful as those created by blood. So, do I regret dedicating my life to Starfleet vs marrying and raising a biological family? No, but that doesn't mean I regret not being part of your life If I had known I would have been there for you and happy to be there and found a way to balance the two.