What went wrong with X Men Apocalypse?

[Midvillian1322]

I disagree Loki was kinda the Star at least in the frist 2 Thor movies.

Your confusing him being more popular with fans with being the star. Thors screen time and the story would say Thors the star.

[choptop]

Your confusing him being more popular with fans with being the star. Thors screen time and the story would say Thors the star.

True but Mags and Loki in the movies still seem very similar in the movies in my opinion.

[Midvillian1322]

True but Mags and Loki in the movies still seem very similar in the movies in my opinion.

I think Magneto is more of a main character then Loki but I mean Thor has a defined main protagonists. The current Xmen films it's been shared between Charles,Mystique, and Eric. The old movies I'd say it was straight up Wolverine with everyone else being a side character. But they are both the popular villians who for whatever reason the heroes keep forgiving no matter how awful the **** they do is. So definitely see similarities. I think Magneto intrinsically is a better character but Loki has had a more clear character arc. Magneto keeps going in circles. 2 steps forward 3 step back. But yea I love the chatacter I'm not on the Bench Magneto team, but I'd like more of a plan instead of seeming like "Hmm what should we do with him this movie?" Apporach.

[SpiderClops]

I wish that they could remake those films without Magneto so everyone could see how flimsy the stories are. He wasn't the weak part of any of these movies.

That's a self fullfilling phrophesy.

[Michael Watkins]

That's a self fullfilling phrophesy.

Not sure what you mean. At any rate, the story is over. Fox x-men movies are done.

[SpiderClops]

Not sure what you mean. At any rate, the story is over. Fox x-men movies are done.

That they have already made up their minds that Magneto just has to be in every single movie and has to have abig role to make it interesting, in turn giving the actual X-Men the short end of the stick, and then saying, "See! No one else has as good of a plot as him!"

[AJBopp]

I honestly wonder what Marvel will make of the X Men now they have got the rights back?
They seem to be going the comedy route with all their films now, and although X Men had funny moments overall the stories could be pretty dark.

There are three franchises in the MCU that are straight up comedies, and only one of those changed from being drama to comedy.

I'd personally call the MCU light drama for the most part, and I think that's exactly the right time for most of these films.

[AJBopp]

Black Panther and especially the Thanos centric Avengers movies were not comedies. They had some funny moments but that's just what they were.

Nor was Captain Marvel. The current trend is certainly not in favor of comedies, but I understand why the nonsensical change in Thor would give rise to this fear. It's an alarm bell to fans that nothing is really safe, you can't count on Marvel sticking with a vision. That may be an overreaction, but Marvel brought that on themselves.

[Midvillian1322]

Nor was Captain Marvel. The current trend is certainly not in favor of comedies, but I understand why the nonsensical change in Thor would give rise to this fear. It's an alarm bell to fans that nothing is really safe, you can't count on Marvel sticking with a vision. That may be an overreaction, but Marvel brought that on themselves.

They turned one of theyrr least popular MCU leads into one of the most popular. Of course not everyone gonna like the comedic change but most did. What they brought on themselves big picture was positive. The dark world is considered MCU worst movie by alot and Ragnarok was a huge success across the board. A couple mad comic fans who are offended by Thor being a comedic movie isnt something I can see Marvel being worried about. Especialy when the results have been as positive as they have been.

[AJBopp]

They turned one of theyrr least popular MCU leads into one of the most popular. Of course not everyone gonna like the comedic change but most did. What they brought on themselves big picture was positive. The dark world is considered MCU worst movie by alot and Ragnarok was a huge success across the board. A couple mad comic fans who are offended by Thor being a comedic movie isnt something I can see Marvel being worried about. Especialy when the results have been as positive as they have been.

It doesn't take a comic fan to be upset about this (I'm not one, FWIW). The unsettling aspect of it is the complete turnaround in tone. Even that I think I could live with if they had just told a different story. Getting laughs out of Armageddon, out of the annihilation of a race, is like getting laughs out of the Holocaust. It just doesn't fit. You want to do funny? To Frog Thor or Beta Ray Bill Thor. Not "Everyone I loved and my home all that's good about the Nine Realms was brutally destroyed. Ha ha, what a knee-slapper."

At a fundamental story level, Ragnarok and Infinity War had the same story to tell. One of them told it well. The other made a mockery of it.

And that's where my displeasure with Ragnarok comes from. It's a tone entirely inappropriate to the story being told, and I have two issues with it:

1. Marvel has eroded my trust a little (a little) that they will make good decisions with characters I care about.
2. That this story, told this way, was received so well by audiences bodes ill for the state of society today. Exaggeration? I can see why some might think so. But it doesn't say anything good at any level about us.

[Gorthon616]

2. That this story, told this way, was received so well by audiences bodes ill for the state of society today. Exaggeration? I can see why some might think so. But it doesn't say anything good at any level about us.

Frankly, I find it bizarre that you find the greater public's ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality a bad thing. What? Because I have the ability to be indifferent to the "deaths" of fictional people, that I must be some kind of closet serial killer?

To me it's the opposite that's horrifying. Like when someone's like "I cried when ____ character died." Okay, lemme read today's obituary and watch those water works. "But the show gave me reasons to care about these people, I don't have reasons to care for those people." Okay, how about those people on the show are literally not real, and these people in the obituary are literally real. "But they're real to me."

And that's nightmarish world that I live in, where "real to me" > "literally real."

[Michael Watkins]

That they have already made up their minds that Magneto just has to be in every single movie and has to have abig role to make it interesting, in turn giving the actual X-Men the short end of the stick, and then saying, "See! No one else has as good of a plot as him!"

Or maybe it was the other way around. The focus of the first x-movie was Rogue. The second's plot was driven by Wolverine. The 3rd was Jean's story. They didn't want to go back to that well. Wolverine had gone solo. So they focused on the tertiary characters from the first three; Xavier, Mystique, and Magneto. Those three just happened to have stronger stories. So they stuck with them; while working Wolverine heavily back into the mix for Days of Future Past. They could have just not invited Fassbender back. But Magneto survived the last movie. And they had already hinted at Quicksilver, a very popular character, being his son. He also filled a hole in a relatively underpowered Four Horseman lineup. I can agree that Magneto isn't necessary for the Dark Phoenix movie. But it's the last one. It would have been wrong to exclude him.

[SpiderClops]

Or maybe it was the other way around. The focus of the first x-movie was Rogue. The second's plot was driven by Wolverine. The 3rd was Jean's story. They didn't want to go back to that well. Wolverine had gone solo. So they focused on the tertiary characters from the first three; Xavier, Mystique, and Magneto. Those three just happened to have stronger stories. So they stuck with them; while working Wolverine heavily back into the mix for Days of Future Past. They could have just not invited Fassbender back. But Magneto survived the last movie. And they had already hinted at Quicksilver, a very popular character, being his son. He also filled a hole in a relatively underpowered Four Horseman lineup. I can agree that Magneto isn't necessary for the Dark Phoenix movie. But it's the last one. It would have been wrong to exclude him.

Magneto was the main villain in the very first movie. What the hell are you talking about? He has always had one of the most important role in the movies.

And when they were making Dark Phoenix, they didn't know it would be the last one.

[Jokerz79]

Magneto was the main villain in the very first movie. What the hell are you talking about? He has always had one of the most important role in the movies.

And when they were making Dark Phoenix, they didn't know it would be the last one.

Yeah the very first scene of X-Men 2000 was Magneto that alone tells you his importance to the story.

[motherofpearl1]

It doesn't take a comic fan to be upset about this (I'm not one, FWIW). The unsettling aspect of it is the complete turnaround in tone. Even that I think I could live with if they had just told a different story. Getting laughs out of Armageddon, out of the annihilation of a race, is like getting laughs out of the Holocaust. It just doesn't fit. You want to do funny? To Frog Thor or Beta Ray Bill Thor. Not "Everyone I loved and my home all that's good about the Nine Realms was brutally destroyed. Ha ha, what a knee-slapper."

At a fundamental story level, Ragnarok and Infinity War had the same story to tell. One of them told it well. The other made a mockery of it.

And that's where my displeasure with Ragnarok comes from. It's a tone entirely inappropriate to the story being told, and I have two issues with it:

1. Marvel has eroded my trust a little (a little) that they will make good decisions with characters I care about.
2. That this story, told this way, was received so well by audiences bodes ill for the state of society today. Exaggeration? I can see why some might think so. But it doesn't say anything good at any level about us.

My cousin's husband, a fanatical comic book fan, once said Thor Ragnarok is a movie for everyone except die hard Thor fans. As a fan of the Thor comics, I'm inclined to agree with him.
And much as I like Chris Hemsworth, the moment he candidly said he found Thor a boring character was the moment I realized he was actually miscast. The best thing about his version of Thor is his genuine camaraderie with Loki, largely due to Hemsworth and Hddleston's off screen friendship.