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  1. #1
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    Default Titans and Batwoman Trailers, inflammatory on purpose?

    So, I'm noticing that Pennyworth seems to be really flying under the radar (there is still time). Not finding much discussion of it and such comparatively, the subreddit looks like a ghost town. But it doesn't have a trailer that does anything to "insult" Batman, since he isn't even born yet in the setting.

    So Titans did the "f*** Batman" thing, and seemingly had Dick kill ppl. Only I heard recently that one or more of the shots in the trailer wasn't even in the final product (I haven't seen the show so I can't confirm the validity). And the infamous line, was of course, taken out of context. Along with the fight footage, which was also apparently way out of context.

    Then the Batwoman trailer has some lines that comes across overly heavy-handed. It also makes it appear that Kate steals Bruce's stuff. The way she talks to Luke in that bit makes me suspect she either inherited or bought Wayne Tower and he didn't get the message, so she busts her way in because she's in a hurry. That's how it seems to me after subsequent views. In full context I suspect the scenes and lines aren't all that bad, just like with Titans.

    What both trailers do, is make Dick and Kate appear very insecure about being under the shadow of their mentor/older-cousin, and overcompensate for it. It makes them appear very childish and petulant. After the Titans trailer I expected Dick to be a whiny kid trying to show how grown-up he was not needing Batman anymore. But after reading through and watching plenty of reviews, that is not the case at all.

    To be clear, I wasn't offended by either the Titans or Batwoman trailers, but they did annoy me. I suspect it's all to provoke, because it gets more attention and then more ppl end up watching the trailers who otherwise might not have. It gets more ppl watching, and by the time the actual show comes out most ppl have cooled down, and many will watch "just to see how bad it is".

    It has to be on purpose, otherwise they just keep choosing ppl who are bad at doing trailers to do the trailers. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    For Batwoman specifically, they clearly aped the first Captain Marvel trailer's "Her(o)" thing, so they probably knew what they were doing; I don't think anyone who pays even a decent amount of attention to pop culture would have missed the frothing rage (and therefore, attention) CM produced from certain people, so a marketing team absolutely would have.
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  3. #3
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    My only complaint about Batwoman is her saying "I'm not about to let a man take credit for a woman's work". She literally goes in and takes everything that's Bruce's, like what?
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  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    My only complaint about Batwoman is her saying "I'm not about to let a man take credit for a woman's work". She literally goes in and takes everything that's Bruce's, like what?
    I think that's intentional, a character flaw she grows out of by the time of Elseworlds.
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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Well I'm still not interested so it doesn't work on me XD
    Should I keep not watching because I don't want to support bad marketing? Like how do these things work?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Well I'm still not interested so it doesn't work on me XD
    Should I keep not watching because I don't want to support bad marketing? Like how do these things work?
    I think in that case you probably wouldn't be part of the equation. But if you hated it so much that you kept talking about it, letting other ppl know of it's existence, then in a sense that would be free advertising. It could call attention to it from the ppl who do enjoy it, or find it cringe-worthy but are otherwise interested, and previously didn't know about it. If you really hated it, and had a popular youtube channel or blog, or some other social media following, and you dedicated a video/article to how much you hated it - now even more ppl are aware of the trailer and will likely watch it for context of what you are complaining about (or also hate it so go off to do the same thing). That's even more visibility and free advertising.

    Last year I didn't even know of the Titans show's existence until the trailer's backlash - there were articles and vids showing-up in enough places. Then I watched the trailer and thought it looked meh, but was interested enough to keep an eye on reviews.

    I don't know, let's imagine if the Titan's trailer didn't have the infamous line, and they didn't make it look like Dick was killing ppl - do you think as many ppl would have been aware of the show? Maybe, but maybe not.

    What about with Batwoman? If they cut out the lines that upset ppl, and removed the cheesy pop-song and 'her-o' part? Do you think as many ppl would have seen it by now? In both cases, invested fans probably would have watched and thought that it looks great/okay/bland/bad, and that might have been as far as it went.

    Does the free advertising out-weigh the backlash? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 05-18-2019 at 10:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    I think in that case you probably wouldn't be part of the equation. But if you hated it so much that you kept talking about it, letting other ppl know of it's existence, then in a sense that would be free advertising. It could call attention to it from the ppl who do enjoy it, or find it cringe-worthy but are otherwise interested, and previously didn't know about it. If you really hated it, and had a popular youtube channel or blog, or some other social media following, and you dedicated a video/article to how much you hated it - now even more ppl are aware of the trailer and will likely watch it for context of what you are complaining about (or also hate it so go off to do the same thing). That's even more visibility and free advertising.

    Last year I didn't even know of the Titans show's existence until the trailer's backlash - there were articles and vids showing-up in enough places. Then I watched the trailer and thought it looked meh, but was interested enough to keep an eye on reviews.

    I don't know, let's imagine if the Titan's trailer didn't have the infamous line, and they didn't make it look like Dick was killing ppl - do you think as many ppl would have been aware of the show? Maybe, but maybe not.

    What about with Batwoman? If they cut out the lines that upset ppl, and removed the cheesy pop-song and 'her-o' part? Do you think as many ppl would have seen it by now? In both cases, invested fans probably would have watched and thought that it looks great/okay/bland/bad, and that might have been as far as it went.

    Does the free advertising out-weigh the backlash? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
    It's a short term gain that risk loosing your built-in audience indefinitely. I would said no, its not worth the risk. Others would disagree with me.

    But one thing to consider when engaging in that type of marketing is if your product can not only back it up but continue to deliver its like automatically setting yourself up for failure. If you launch anything intrinsically divisive it better be really good. Otherwise the people who take the bait will leave you faster then the people who would have tried it otherwise.

  8. #8
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    I think that's intentional, a character flaw she grows out of by the time of Elseworlds.
    I just think it's a shit line and it's gonna be another cw show.
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  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    I just think it's a shit line and it's gonna be another cw show.
    Even though the evidence suggests that it is, indeed, an intentional flaw?

    Think about it. This is a prequel to Elseworlds, and she doesn't talk about Batman or Bruce the same way in that, which suggests she develops out of that.
    Her backstory for the show has also been significantly altered in ways that account for her being more immature and selfish at first.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Even though the evidence suggests that it is, indeed, an intentional flaw?
    Don't know some of the other CW shows have been kind of cringe worthy when it comes to "Girlpower" or other "SWJ-topics" in the past.

    The internet blows of course everything out of proportion, but I still think that stuff like that might alienate a lot of fans.

  11. #11
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Just saw the trailer. It honestly looks better than Titans or Flash.

    I found nothing inflammatory about it. So Kate doesn't want people to think that it's Batman. That's natural. It's like getting mad about Dick saying that he wants to be his own man.

  12. #12
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    I just watched it. Other than the cringy line at the end, it doesn’t look bad. May give it a shot. Can’t be worse than Arrow. it Will probably be good for a couple of seasons and then got to crap like all of the other CW DC shows.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    So Kate doesn't want people to think that it's Batman. That's natural. It's like getting mad about Dick saying that he wants to be his own man.
    The way the lines were written, delivered and directed - makes it seem like Kate is very insecure and childish, like she has a need to go out of her way to tell everyone (or in this case Luke) how tough she is. And the only point of difference she can come up with, at the time, is that she's female.

    It would have been simpler if they just made her say "f*** Batman". (j/k)

    But I understand trailers do not provide full context. I guess they gave her added baggage of a cousin rivalry.

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    Does the free advertising out-weigh the backlash? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
    You never know until the ratings are in. There is most definitely such a thing as bad press, and it can kill your product. You gotta be careful about including things you know are going to be polarizing, but if you can predict how everyone will react and make it work for you......you can turn a little bit of bad press into a mountain of support.

    It's a viable marketing strategy. I mean, you toss a couple girl power lines into a trailer and it's only going to piss off a small handful of limp dick guys who can't stand to see a woman kicking ass. Those guys were never going to see Batwoman or Captain Marvel in the first place so them being angry doesn't do any damage. But when they start complaining, other people in their echo chamber do the same and eventually the noise rises up where the rest of us hear about it. Then we say "Well I better make sure I support this product extra hard, just to balance out the limp D's." And we tell our friends and family, who maybe weren't aware or interested in the product beforehand, but since our friends and family tend to have similar views they also decide to support the product just to spite the limp D's.....and the product becomes more successful.

    Personally speaking, I found a few of the lines in the Batwoman trailer to be obviously trying too hard. Im not offended or bothered, I just think it was weak, transparent dialogue. But the CW target demographic, far as I know, skews towards young women who will eat that up (they might consider it weak dialogue too but they'll be all about the message), so it's not dangerous marketing at all unless the CW drops the ball real badly and the show is awful (by CW standards).
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  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    I think in that case you probably wouldn't be part of the equation. But if you hated it so much that you kept talking about it, letting other ppl know of it's existence, then in a sense that would be free advertising. It could call attention to it from the ppl who do enjoy it, or find it cringe-worthy but are otherwise interested, and previously didn't know about it. If you really hated it, and had a popular youtube channel or blog, or some other social media following, and you dedicated a video/article to how much you hated it - now even more ppl are aware of the trailer and will likely watch it for context of what you are complaining about (or also hate it to go off to do the same thing). That's even more visibility and free advertising.

    Last year I didn't even know of the Titans show's existence until the trailer's backlash - there were articles and vids showing-up in enough places. Then I watched the trailer and thought it looked meh, but was interested enough to keep an eye on reviews. So it's a big enough oops for DC to do something about it, but they also know they can rely on hardcore Batman buyers to keep buying.

    I don't know, let's imagine if the Titan's trailer didn't have the infamous line, and they didn't make it look like Dick was killing ppl - do you think as many ppl would have been aware of the show? Maybe, but maybe not.

    What about with Batwoman? If they cut out the lines that upset ppl, and removed the cheesy pop-song and 'her-o' part? Do you think as many ppl would have seen it by now? In both cases, invested fans probably would have watched and thought that it looks great/okay/bland/bad, and that might have been as far as it went.

    Does the free advertising out-weigh the backlash? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
    Make sense. The bad ad is still ad. Attention, awareness. As for how many turns up I guess it depends on how bad the ad is.

    There's a comic some way back titled Whore where the cover features a James Bond type of protagonist sitting on naked women, then when pressed for an answer, the author said the whore in the title refers to the protagonist who will do any job for money. Nobody's buying that explanation, and a lot of stores don't want to stock it. Especially since it's from an author nobody's heard about. That's the worst example I can think of.

    In the case of Titans, the only problem is Fuck Batman and the costume (and maybe Starfire casting). That won't be enough to deter a lot of Titans fans. DC can rely on them to watch it and spread accurate news.

    Then there's Batman's wedding issue. Loads of variant featuring the wedding and there's going to be a wedding album. So, of course, a lot of people thought it's gonna happen. Then it didn't and the backlash was huge enough DC decided to refund people who bought the variants, though Didio and Lee still stand by that they never actually said a wedding's gonna happen. So it's a big enough oops for them to do something about it, but they're also secure enough that hardcore Batman fans will keep buying.

    All in all, it sounds like a gamble that the smart people will only use if they're secure enough that they have enough fanbase not to immediately drop them.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 05-19-2019 at 05:47 PM.

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