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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    This show was going to create backlash regardless because we're going through a cultural shift right now where a lot of white guys are feeling threatened. And I'm saying this as a white guy. The YouTube trailer was comment bombed over it. Here's my thinking: None of these guys were ever gonna watch the show to begin with regardless of how it was handled. It doesn't matter what line was used. I think if the show has anything going against it, it's the fact that CW just has too many superhero shows to begin with. Any superhero movie or show with a female lead was going to face this kind of backlash just for existing. We saw it with Captain Marvel. People made up outright lies about Brie Larson because they couldn't find anything to actually attack her with.

    https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-trailer...mbing-youtube/
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  2. #17
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    Even though the evidence suggests that it is, indeed, an intentional flaw?

    Think about it. This is a prequel to Elseworlds, and she doesn't talk about Batman or Bruce the same way in that, which suggests she develops out of that.
    Her backstory for the show has also been significantly altered in ways that account for her being more immature and selfish at first.
    Look I don't really care and I probably won't watch it. I've dropped all the DC shows minus Doom Patrol and Young Justice (when it actually has episodes). I'm just commenting on the stupid line.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    For Batwoman specifically, they clearly aped the first Captain Marvel trailer's "Her(o)" thing, so they probably knew what they were doing; I don't think anyone who pays even a decent amount of attention to pop culture would have missed the frothing rage (and therefore, attention) CM produced from certain people, so a marketing team absolutely would have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The internet blows of course everything out of proportion, but I still think that stuff like that might alienate a lot of fans.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    It's a short term gain that risk loosing your built-in audience indefinitely. I would said no, its not worth the risk. Others would disagree with me.

    But one thing to consider when engaging in that type of marketing is if your product can not only back it up but continue to deliver its like automatically setting yourself up for failure. If you launch anything intrinsically divisive it better be really good. Otherwise the people who take the bait will leave you faster then the people who would have tried it otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    You never know until the ratings are in. There is most definitely such a thing as bad press, and it can kill your product. You gotta be careful about including things you know are going to be polarizing, but if you can predict how everyone will react and make it work for you......you can turn a little bit of bad press into a mountain of support.

    It's a viable marketing strategy. I mean, you toss a couple girl power lines into a trailer and it's only going to piss off a small handful of limp dick guys who can't stand to see a woman kicking ass. Those guys were never going to see Batwoman or Captain Marvel in the first place so them being angry doesn't do any damage. But when they start complaining, other people in their echo chamber do the same and eventually the noise rises up where the rest of us hear about it. Then we say "Well I better make sure I support this product extra hard, just to balance out the limp D's." And we tell our friends and family, who maybe weren't aware or interested in the product beforehand, but since our friends and family tend to have similar views they also decide to support the product just to spite the limp D's.....and the product becomes more successful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Make sense. The bad ad is still ad. Attention, awareness. As for how many turns up I guess it depends on how bad the ad is.

    ...All in all, it sounds like a gamble that the smart people will only use if they're secure enough that they have enough fanbase not to immediately drop them.
    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    This show was going to create backlash regardless because we're going through a cultural shift right now where a lot of white guys are feeling threatened. And I'm saying this as a white guy. The YouTube trailer was comment bombed over it. Here's my thinking: None of these guys were ever gonna watch the show to begin with regardless of how it was handled. It doesn't matter what line was used. I think if the show has anything going against it, it's the fact that CW just has too many superhero shows to begin with. Any superhero movie or show with a female lead was going to face this kind of backlash just for existing. We saw it with Captain Marvel. People made up outright lies about Brie Larson because they couldn't find anything to actually attack her with.

    https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-trailer...mbing-youtube/
    Very insightful stuff. Thanks, you've given me plenty to think about.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 05-19-2019 at 09:42 PM.

  4. #19
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    I'm also not sure if you can really compare Batwoman with Captain Marvel. The Arrowverse is just not the MCU.
    The MCU is at the moment probably the strongest movie brand, and the excitement of it fans in due to Endgame probaly at it's peak at the moment. And even if there had been a backlash due to Captain Marvel, Endgame would have easily overshadowed it.

    That can't be really said about the Arrowverse. Viewer ship numbers are not that strong*). And there has been a lot of criticism about the shows by fans.


    *)The situation in the US might be little bit better, but I'm not even sure if the current seasons of all shows will even air in my country, last year they dumbed most of the shows somewhere on a late night slot during the summer break (when usually all shows go on a hiatus and only reruns are aired), and this year they have just stared to air the Flash on a much more obscure station than all the previous seasons, and nothing is announced about the other shows sofar.

  5. #20

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    I just saw it as them drumming up interest in casual fans. Robin saying Fuck Batman peaks your interest more than him saying Batman is the best hero ever.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I'm also not sure if you can really compare Batwoman with Captain Marvel. The Arrowverse is just not the MCU.
    The MCU is at the moment probably the strongest movie brand, and the excitement of it fans in due to Endgame probaly at it's peak at the moment. And even if there had been a backlash due to Captain Marvel, Endgame would have easily overshadowed it.

    That can't be really said about the Arrowverse. Viewer ship numbers are not that strong*). And there has been a lot of criticism about the shows by fans.
    But the measurement for success is different. CW shows aren't nearly as expensive to make as Marvel films, and the bar for success is way lower, most of their Arrowverse shows have around a million viewers each week, or a bit under that, and that equals success for them.

    Also, the big Crisis on Infinite Earths is happening this year, across 5 shows, and Batwoman is one of them. The fans excited for the Crisis will have to tune into at least one Batwoman ep if they want to see the full crossover. Those that want more context will probably watch more.

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    I just saw it as them drumming up interest in casual fans. Robin saying Fuck Batman peaks your interest more than him saying Batman is the best hero ever.
    I did get a little chuckle out of how it was seemingly making some ppl go berserk.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member Caivu's Avatar
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    The show has bumped up 266 spots on IMDB since last week (if I have that right) and is right now the 66th most popular show on the site. So if the trailer was meant to be inflammatory, it clearly seems to be working.
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  8. #23
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    My only complaint about Batwoman is her saying "I'm not about to let a man take credit for a woman's work". She literally goes in and takes everything that's Bruce's, like what?
    LOL, that's a good point. I otherwise found the trailer kind of meh.
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  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Went looking for a story to read on fanfic, and in the crossover section, found 2 stories literally bashing on the trailer and killing Kate in pretty bad ways.

    Talk about hurt egos there.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Went looking for a story to read on fanfic, and in the crossover section, found 2 stories literally bashing on the trailer and killing Kate in pretty bad ways...
    LMAO, got to love the overreactions of today's "fans".
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  11. #26
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    The DC television department just sucks at marketing and making trailers. DC Universe must've fired the people behind the Titans marketing because over the months they got way better at presenting their shows. Even Nefix was promoting Titans better than DC Universe.
    Last edited by HandofPrometheus; 05-22-2019 at 11:22 PM.

  12. #27
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    You never know until the ratings are in. There is most definitely such a thing as bad press, and it can kill your product. You gotta be careful about including things you know are going to be polarizing, but if you can predict how everyone will react and make it work for you......you can turn a little bit of bad press into a mountain of support.

    It's a viable marketing strategy. I mean, you toss a couple girl power lines into a trailer and it's only going to piss off a small handful of limp dick guys who can't stand to see a woman kicking ass. Those guys were never going to see Batwoman or Captain Marvel in the first place so them being angry doesn't do any damage. But when they start complaining, other people in their echo chamber do the same and eventually the noise rises up where the rest of us hear about it. Then we say "Well I better make sure I support this product extra hard, just to balance out the limp D's." And we tell our friends and family, who maybe weren't aware or interested in the product beforehand, but since our friends and family tend to have similar views they also decide to support the product just to spite the limp D's.....and the product becomes more successful.

    Personally speaking, I found a few of the lines in the Batwoman trailer to be obviously trying too hard. Im not offended or bothered, I just think it was weak, transparent dialogue. But the CW target demographic, far as I know, skews towards young women who will eat that up (they might consider it weak dialogue too but they'll be all about the message), so it's not dangerous marketing at all unless the CW drops the ball real badly and the show is awful (by CW standards).
    Yeah, pretty much this. Got an eyeroll out of me because it's just so ham-fisted, but I'm not their target demographic.

    I won't watch it unless it gets stellar word of mouth on here, but I'm not watching any of the CW shows as they just don't appeal to me.

    Hope it's excellent for the fans of the character.

    More on topic, I don't think it's inflammatory so much as intentionally controversial. We live in an age of clickbait, memes and rage topics. The only way to make a wave is to go hard at something you're sure will make waves --any waves-- because you want the show on people's radar. Doesn't matter if people watch the show to hate on it, meme it or love every frame; still ad revenue sold. If it was just a cool run-of-the-mill CW trailer but Batwoman, you'd pretty much only get the existing audience. It's, what, the fifth show in that lineup? They're too insular and she's B-List at best to think business as usual will be enough to keep it afloat.

    They needed to hitch their wagon to something guaranteed to get talked about and given Captain Marvel's success, this feels like a no-brainer. Admittedly, so did those two throwaway lines, but they helped establish the tone and Kate's character going forward. That's really all it had to do, and for what it's worth, I think it did. I wouldn't hang my hat on her characterization in the crossover either because, quite frankly, pilots (stealth or otherwise) are rarely treated as gospel and often subject to change when their characters and themes have to sustain a season instead of an instance.

    Again, really hope that fans of Kate's will dig this and it's everything you guys hope it is and more.
    Last edited by Robanker; 05-22-2019 at 11:46 PM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    But the measurement for success is different. CW shows aren't nearly as expensive to make as Marvel films, and the bar for success is way lower, most of their Arrowverse shows have around a million viewers each week, or a bit under that, and that equals success for them.
    I think I saw a report about how the numbers have dropped over the seasons.

    But I can't really judge how popular they are in the US, over here the shows are basically dead.

    And I don't have the impression that the fans are that satisfied with what they get, as the MCU-fans.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I think I saw a report about how the numbers have dropped over the seasons.

    But I can't really judge how popular they are in the US, over here the shows are basically dead.
    The numbers fluctuate from season to season, or so I heard. That said, most shows lose ratings over time, drop-off is normal. As long as it doesn't get too low, things are good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    And I don't have the impression that the fans are that satisfied with what they get, as the MCU-fans.
    Speaking of Marvel, the Captain Marvel upsets continue:

    https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...removies-brie/

    DC, Marvel, doesn't matter - something will be upsetting to some 'fans'.
    Last edited by Bat-Meal; 05-23-2019 at 02:01 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat-Meal View Post
    DC, Marvel, doesn't matter - something will be upsetting to some 'fans'.
    But I think with the CW shows there are imo more complains about the general quality and not only about "SWJ"-stuff.

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