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  1. #31
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Has there been any story since Dark Phoenix Saga and some of Rachel's that was better thanks to the presence of Phoenix?

    I can think of some in which it has had a neutral presence but none in which you say "Here the Phoenix has improved the story".

  2. #32
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    of course it could be Cyclops who ends up with the phoenix what with him being brought back alive due to its power. it could lead to Cyclops becoming the MVP player instead of jean and could lead to conflict with professor X who doesn't want his bastard of a murderer to keep the force and could lead to a confrontation between the former teacher and his former pet student.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    Has there been any story since Dark Phoenix Saga and some of Rachel's that was better thanks to the presence of Phoenix?

    I can think of some in which it has had a neutral presence but none in which you say "Here the Phoenix has improved the story".
    All of Morrison’s led up to the Phoenix.

  4. #34
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    There's just no point in telling stories that revolve around the Phoenix anymore. Because you're going to be reading the comic, and then in the back of your mind, you'll know the truth. That the Science Ninja Technique: Firebird came first and is cooler than the Phoenix will ever be, and that you're not reading a better comic about that instead. And that'll make you sad.

    Don't be sad.

    Don't write about the Phoenix, Marvel.

    You'll make us sad .
    heroine addict we love you come back

  5. #35
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    All of Morrison’s led up to the Phoenix.
    Ok, one (1) story.

  6. #36
    Fantastic Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    As much as I love the Phoenix (when it is tied to Jean and/or Rachel) I think it would be best to stay away from the Phoenix unless Hickman can do some course correction. I love Claremont's version of the Phoenix and Morrison's version. In recent times the Phoenix has been basically ruined. I did like what Hopeless did with the Phoenix and at least he seemed to understand it more than Rosenberg. I don't think Rosenberg got the more mythical and spiritual elements of the Phoenix. Rosenberg saw the Phoenix as something separate from Jean that overshadowed her. I would argue the opposite. The best Phoenix stories, for the most part been Jean Grey stories.

    I think Hickman can do some great things in X-men with some big concepts and if it were to use the Phoenix he would have to use it sort of sparingly to make it work (in a similar way Morrison did). I do like it when the Phoenix is connected with mutants, but in recent years it has been connected with a lot of things and isn't necessarily tied to mutants/evolution, etc.

    I always wanted someone to expand on the "voice" in the White Hot Room that pushed the Phoenix hosts to act in Here Comes Tomorrow. The "hospital" inside the WHR was an interesting and cool concept. I love that panel of Jean levitating upside down in that bizarre place and holding a universe in her hands. I think there is potential with the Phoenix, the white hot room, what it means to be a Phoenix, etc. The problem has been the Phoenix overexposure and reducing it to a cosmic std that anyone and anything can wield.

  7. #37
    Incredible Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    As much as I love the Phoenix (when it is tied to Jean and/or Rachel) I think it would be best to stay away from the Phoenix unless Hickman can do some course correction. I love Claremont's version of the Phoenix and Morrison's version. In recent times the Phoenix has been basically ruined. I did like what Hopeless did with the Phoenix and at least he seemed to understand it more than Rosenberg. I don't think Rosenberg got the more mythical and spiritual elements of the Phoenix. Rosenberg saw the Phoenix as something separate from Jean that overshadowed her. I would argue the opposite. The best Phoenix stories, for the most part been Jean Grey stories.

    I think Hickman can do some great things in X-men with some big concepts and if it were to use the Phoenix he would have to use it sort of sparingly to make it work (in a similar way Morrison did). I do like it when the Phoenix is connected with mutants, but in recent years it has been connected with a lot of things and isn't necessarily tied to mutants/evolution, etc.

    I always wanted someone to expand on the "voice" in the White Hot Room that pushed the Phoenix hosts to act in Here Comes Tomorrow. The "hospital" inside the WHR was an interesting and cool concept. I love that panel of Jean levitating upside down in that bizarre place and holding a universe in her hands. I think there is potential with the Phoenix, the white hot room, what it means to be a Phoenix, etc. The problem has been the Phoenix overexposure and reducing it to a cosmic std that anyone and anything can wield.
    If Rachel does end up attached to a book in the fall then explore a new thing about the Phoenix with her, make her the daughter of the Phoenix, separate from the original, and growing into her own power. She was resurrected by the Phoenix multiple times, in the battle with Necrom, in the future she died and was resurrected multiple times in the lead up to her becoming Mother Askani, she died of old age as Mother Askani and then was restored to the timestream again with her youth restored. If she is the Starchilde, then explore what that means exactly, after being resurrected so many times by the Phoenix, what exactly is Rachel now, is she even really human anymore.

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Strong Girl Daken's Avatar
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    I'd love to see Hickman do something with the White Hot Room and the White Hot Phoenix of the Crown. The coolest and least developed elements of the Phoenix mythos.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strong Girl Daken View Post
    I'd love to see Hickman do something with the White Hot Room and the White Hot Phoenix of the Crown. The coolest and least developed elements of the Phoenix mythos.
    Someone will have to be dead to tell that story, so no.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Someone will have to be dead to tell that story, so no.
    Did someone say Rachel?

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Did someone say Rachel?
    White Hot Phoenix of the Crown is a way to fridge women, but using a "higher concept" per Morrison.

    It's a shitty concept.

    I was thinking more of Jean, but Rachel is a Grey

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    White Hot Phoenix of the Crown is a way to fridge women, but using a "higher concept" per Morrison.

    It's a shitty concept.

    I was thinking more of Jean, but Rachel is a Grey
    Ehh I don't think I necessarily agree from my understanding fridgnig is when a writer kills off a female character as a source of motivation for a male character and I don't think that's what people are talking about.

    I see White Hot Phoenix of the Crown serving a role similar to Captain Universe in his Avengers run and Hickman did a really good job humanizing that character.
    Last edited by loke13; 05-19-2019 at 06:41 PM.

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Ehh I don't think I necessarily agree from my understanding fridgnig is when a writer kills off a female character as a source of motivation for a male character and I don't think that's what people are talking about.

    I see White Hot Phoenix of the Crown serving a role similar to Captain Universe in his Avengers run and Hickman did a really good job humanizing that character.
    two completely different concepts. I don't even remmber much of captain universe

  14. #44
    Incredible Member Strong Girl Daken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    White Hot Phoenix of the Crown is a way to fridge women, but using a "higher concept" per Morrison.

    It's a shitty concept.

    I was thinking more of Jean, but Rachel is a Grey
    It was more of a way to keep telling stories with Jean, who was already dead. Hope became a White Hot Phoenix and was fine. It's an underdeveloped concept with a cool as heck costume.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    two completely different concepts. I don't even remmber much of captain universe
    Not really both super powerful cosmic entities living inside the bodies of women.

    Captain Uni was a bit of a Deus Ex Machina in Hickman's run and rightfully so. The entity bonded with an Earth woman suffering from amnesia because of a car crash involving her daughter years prior with a mix of psychological trauma thrown in. The reason was she picked a "broken" body was to symbolize that the Universe was broken (at the time).

    Besides nothing says that the White Hot Phoenix of the Crown has to be a current version of OUR character. The Phoenix exist across space and time nothing stopping Hickman from using a "future" version of Jean/Rachel as the host for the White Hot Phoenix of the Crown he seems to like to play around with the concepts of time and time travel in his stories.

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