Thread Drift: JMS' Amazing Spider-Man, Satellite Books, and the Supporting Cast

[DT Winslow]

It's a joke. You have seen The Simpsons right? Nothing serious was intended.

All I'm saying is if you're going to make a sweeping statement about a popular Spider-Man writer's work being "poor", you should expect backlash and counter arguments in much the same way Dan Slott receives similar treatment for his contributions.

Nevertheless, I am sorry and I shouldn't have been short. JMS's writing has affected me in a very positive way, and I get hot when he's critiqued as I feel he's one of those genuinely good people in the world that we had working on the character.

That assumes I care what others think of my opinion. I’m genuinely glad his writing has affected you, that’s awesome. You want that in life. I dig Michael Chabon and Cormac McCarthy. Changed my life.

As I’ve studied, written and published stories, I’ve realized that not a damn thing we think matters, or rather should matter, to anyone else. When it does, when someone’s opinion starts changing you, getting under your skin, making you hot, you’ve got to step away and realize what you love is what you love. If someone else doesn’t like it, well, who cares? It should not matter to you.

[Miles To Go]

That assumes I care what others think of my opinion. I’m genuinely glad his writing has affected you, that’s awesome. You want that in life. I dig Michael Chabon and Cormac McCarthy. Changed my life.

Cool. Recommend anything from them?

As I’ve studied, written and published stories

Oh, you publish stuff too? That's awesome, are you professional? I self publish but I choose not to profit from it.

[DT Winslow]

Cool. Recommend anything from them?



Oh, you publish stuff too? That's awesome, are you professional? I self publish but I choose not to profit from it.

Chabon’s The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Klay is a must read by everyone. It’s an alternate history of the creation of the comic book industry in New York by two Jewish kids. Takes a great deal of inspiration from Kirby, Lee, Ditko, Steranko and others.

McCarthy’s Blood Meridian is widely considered one of the greatest novels ever written. And deservedly so.

I pitched to DC a LSH run but they did the three boot instead. Since I loved those characters so much I tried to do a book called Hypertime a few years later. It would have starred then Post ZH Legion dimension hopping trying to find a home. The high concept is pretty much Exiles, but that was pretty much Sliders anyway.

I grew tired of the comic industry. It’s so small and that forces everyone to pretend everyone else is equally talented when that’s just not true. There’s no way everyone likes the work of everyone else. Smiles and facades.

I had pitched an er spin-off called Without Borders to NBC back in 2008, I think it was. Maybe 07? NBC said no, and I thought about trying at HBO but Arrendts left and all my contacts were just about dried up.

I ended up self publishing it in 2017 as Gethsemane. I could make a quilt out of my rejection letters. I was having trouble with the middle until I heard a missionary talk about her prison work in El Salvador. Blew the damn thing wide open. I actually went down there a few months later, saw some kids with machine guns, some bad neighborhoods that make my beloved Baltimore look like fucking Mayberry and it changed my life more than anything.

Hey, everyone, thanks for reading. Check out Gethsemane at https://www.amazon.com/Gethsemane-No...r=8-1-fkmrnull

I’m hoping to have Amber out this year as well but we’ll see how it progresses. The Hunting Party is available too and The Coyote Trail will soon follow. I had a collection of stories prepped but was unhappy with some of them so that’s why the ones I like were done individually.

[Miles To Go]

Wow. Thanks for sharing your experiences, it really opens my eyes to a different perspective from someone who isn't just a fan, but as someone who's carved a real range of expertise for himself. I'll also look into your recommendations. I've been trying to get more into reading again (beyond comics of course)

[boots]

Chabon’s The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Klay is a must read by everyone. It’s an alternate history of the creation of the comic book industry in New York by two Jewish kids. Takes a great deal of inspiration from Kirby, Lee, Ditko, Steranko and others.

seconded on kav and klay

mccarthy’s work across the board is great, i even loved the critically panned the counselor

as someone who’s just been optioned with a disney subsidiary after a decade of rejection, i feel your pain. the industry requires marathon runners, especially for those of us that don’t come from money or with contacts. smiles and facades are the currency as you say: “you never have a bad meeting in hollywood”

congrats on gethsemane

as for JMS’ spidey; tried it but couldn’t get through it. *shrug*

[DT Winslow]

seconded on kav and klay

mccarthy’s work across the board is great, i even loved the critically panned the counselor

as someone who’s just been optioned with a disney subsidiary after a decade of rejection, i feel your pain. the industry requires marathon runners, especially for those of us that don’t come from money or with contacts. smiles and facades are the currency as you say: “you never have a bad meeting in hollywood”

congrats on gethsemane

as for JMS’ spidey; tried it but couldn’t get through it. *shrug*

Thanks, boots. Miles, you too. When I got married and had kids, being in that marathon became a run I couldn't do anymore. Other people needed me to make money so they could eat. So I stopped pitching and got a real job. Stupid real jobs. But I'm still writing, so it all works out.

But not everything is for everyone. One of my favorite examples is McCarthy's The Road. Oprah put that on her book club list. I can walk into any used bookstore or Goodwill and find dozens of copies. Clearly, that means people didn't care for it as much as I did. I think it is a triumph of literature. Oprah thought so too. Conversely, it doesn't mean a thing. Not everyone keeps books like I do.

I do think it silly to view ancillary titles as requirements. 'Oh but Flash appeared in Spectacular during that run,' is no defense. Satellite titles have had historically lower sales than ASM by their very nature. One of the reasons for the BND pare down was because they weren't selling as well as ASM. So why not have ASM be all three titles? It was a great editorial decision.

I loved, unabashedly, BND. I own it in singles and I own it in what Complete Collections have been released. I love Big Time and I love Superior. Other people disagree but I will not begrudge them that. What I will not tolerate is belittling others' opinions because they differ. We're not all of us children. Let's not act like it.

(I'm a little more down on post-Superior but Slott ends his run with a great last few years. But those two years immediately following Superior were not great.)

((I also loved The Clone Conspiracy))

(((Yes, really)))

[boots]

Thanks, boots. Miles, you too. When I got married and had kids, being in that marathon became a run I couldn't do anymore. Other people needed me to make money so they could eat. So I stopped pitching and got a real job. Stupid real jobs. But I'm still writing, so it all works out.

100%. i've had to delay those things, and that's a hard choice to make. if i delay them long enough, they'll eventually no longer be possible.

i'm always impressed by peeps who can balance both.

But not everything is for everyone. One of my favorite examples is McCarthy's The Road. Oprah put that on her book club list. I can walk into any used bookstore or Goodwill and find dozens of copies. Clearly, that means people didn't care for it as much as I did. I think it is a triumph of literature. Oprah thought so too. Conversely, it doesn't mean a thing. Not everyone keeps books like I do.

well, the pullitzer will have to be his consolation prize.

((I also loved The Clone Conspiracy))

(((Yes, really)))

man, i wanted to love conspiracy. i tried really hard.

love is a strong word...what was it that appealed?

[Lee]

Nevertheless, I am sorry and I shouldn't have been short. JMS's writing has affected me in a very positive way, and I get hot when he's critiqued as I feel he's one of those genuinely good people in the world that we had working on the character.

DT criticized the comics, not the character of the people making the comics, as often happens on this forum when someone doesn't like a Spider-Man story.

[Alan2099]

I don’t like JMS. I’ve not liked almost anything he’s ever written.

I loved his Ghostbusters stuff. Bablyon 5 was hit or miss.

His Spider-man though was fairly horrible.

The totem stuff was completley out of place in Spider-lore. The idea that Peter was destined to be a hero goes completley against the core idea that Petey was just a normal guy that happened to be in the right place at the time.

He seemed to favor poorly developed cheap knockoffs of better villains over the classic Spidey rogues. As much as he seemed to love Morlun, the guy was a one-note villain with all the development and personality of a sheet of paper until Slott got a hold of him.

He wrote Peter and MJ as though they had suddenly gotten 15 years older overnight completely changed every aspect of who Aunt May was, and ditched the rest of the supporting cast.

I think a lot of the people who talk about how great he was are just doing so in order to have more ammo they can throw against OMD. Have people forgot about Spider-man growing Wolverine claws and eating a villains head?

[Miles To Go]

IThe totem stuff was completley out of place in Spider-lore. The idea that Peter was destined to be a hero goes completley against the core idea that Petey was just a normal guy that happened to be in the right place at the time.

And yet that twist did much to inform the franchise redefining Spider-Verse.

He seemed to favor poorly developed cheap knockoffs of better villains over the classic Spidey rogues. As much as he seemed to love Morlun, the guy was a one-note villain with all the development and personality of a sheet of paper until Slott got a hold of him.

Slott didn't do anything with Morlun that JMS didn't do. All Slott did was make a whole family of the same one-note characters and had them eat people in a one-note story.

He wrote Peter and MJ as though they had suddenly gotten 15 years older overnight completely changed every aspect of who Aunt May was, and ditched the rest of the supporting cast.

You mean he wrote them as adults in a mature relationship...and don't act like DeFalco, Mackie, Michelinie and DeMatties weren't writing them like that for most of the 90s prior to Chapter One and the relaunch.

I think a lot of the people who talk about how great he was are just doing so in order to have more ammo they can throw against OMD

I love how you have this unfathomable ability to peer into people's heads and come up with such an assumption. Oh wait, you possess no ability.

I didn't like The Other either. JMS made up for that with Back In Black. Seasons one and five of Babylon 5 were terrible. Everything in between was amongst the pinnacle of 90s sci-fi drama. Everyone has bad days.

People will like what they like. Who are you to assume what they think?

[Russ840]

I loved his Ghostbusters stuff. Bablyon 5 was hit or miss.

His Spider-man though was fairly horrible.

The totem stuff was completley out of place in Spider-lore. The idea that Peter was destined to be a hero goes completley against the core idea that Petey was just a normal guy that happened to be in the right place at the time.

He seemed to favor poorly developed cheap knockoffs of better villains over the classic Spidey rogues. As much as he seemed to love Morlun, the guy was a one-note villain with all the development and personality of a sheet of paper until Slott got a hold of him.

He wrote Peter and MJ as though they had suddenly gotten 15 years older overnight completely changed every aspect of who Aunt May was, and ditched the rest of the supporting cast.

I think a lot of the people who talk about how great he was are just doing so in order to have more ammo they can throw against OMD. Have people forgot about Spider-man growing Wolverine claws and eating a villains head?

No that’s not the case, for me a least. I love all of his run excluding OMD. The spider totem stuff is ambiguous enough for me that it’s not definitive in saying that it is destiny.

Funny how you think Morlun is one note ( I cannot really argue ) before Slott, yet Slott went all in with the totem and destiny aspect.

MJ and Peter were written as mature, competent adults which, to me , felt consistent with there portrayal since Michelinie wrote them.

You are right about aunt May. She changed, but for the better. She was a useless character since her death in 400 and JMS gave her some much needed character development.

[Miles To Go]

The supporting cast weren't forgotten about during that era either, unless you're one of those types that presume ASM is the only title you should read

[Snoop Dogg]

The supporting cast weren't forgotten about during that era either, unless you're one of those types that presume ASM is the only title you should read

The satellites having more supporting cast stuff will never be a good rebuttal to the main book lacking a fundamental part of Spider-Man and the franchise's appeal.

[Miles To Go]

The satellites having more supporting cast stuff will never be a good rebuttal to the main book lacking a fundamental part of Spider-Man and the franchise's appeal.

Back then, nobody subscribed to the idea a main book for Spider-Man defined anything. That was entirely an invention of the BND team prioritising ASM as the main book post-OMD.

Speaking of that, JMS prioritised the family life with the Parkers because he knew he had a limited amount of time in which he could write the marriage. He knew when he signed on they were getting rid of it, he wanted all the time in the run to make it seem important to the lore and to the readership. Other characters would have gotten in the way.

[boots]

The satellites having more supporting cast stuff will never be a good rebuttal to the main book lacking a fundamental part of Spider-Man and the franchise's appeal.

it’s also a bit rich to ask readers to spend more money to get a complete experience, but that’s not something superhero comics are above