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  1. #1
    Brandy and Coke DT Winslow's Avatar
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    Default Thread Drift: JMS' Amazing Spider-Man, Satellite Books, and the Supporting Cast

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    It's a joke. You have seen The Simpsons right? Nothing serious was intended.

    All I'm saying is if you're going to make a sweeping statement about a popular Spider-Man writer's work being "poor", you should expect backlash and counter arguments in much the same way Dan Slott receives similar treatment for his contributions.

    Nevertheless, I am sorry and I shouldn't have been short. JMS's writing has affected me in a very positive way, and I get hot when he's critiqued as I feel he's one of those genuinely good people in the world that we had working on the character.
    That assumes I care what others think of my opinion. I’m genuinely glad his writing has affected you, that’s awesome. You want that in life. I dig Michael Chabon and Cormac McCarthy. Changed my life.

    As I’ve studied, written and published stories, I’ve realized that not a damn thing we think matters, or rather should matter, to anyone else. When it does, when someone’s opinion starts changing you, getting under your skin, making you hot, you’ve got to step away and realize what you love is what you love. If someone else doesn’t like it, well, who cares? It should not matter to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DT Winslow View Post
    That assumes I care what others think of my opinion. I’m genuinely glad his writing has affected you, that’s awesome. You want that in life. I dig Michael Chabon and Cormac McCarthy. Changed my life.
    Cool. Recommend anything from them?

    As I’ve studied, written and published stories
    Oh, you publish stuff too? That's awesome, are you professional? I self publish but I choose not to profit from it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Nevertheless, I am sorry and I shouldn't have been short. JMS's writing has affected me in a very positive way, and I get hot when he's critiqued as I feel he's one of those genuinely good people in the world that we had working on the character.
    DT criticized the comics, not the character of the people making the comics, as often happens on this forum when someone doesn't like a Spider-Man story.

  4. #4
    Brandy and Coke DT Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    Cool. Recommend anything from them?



    Oh, you publish stuff too? That's awesome, are you professional? I self publish but I choose not to profit from it.
    Chabonís The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Klay is a must read by everyone. Itís an alternate history of the creation of the comic book industry in New York by two Jewish kids. Takes a great deal of inspiration from Kirby, Lee, Ditko, Steranko and others.

    McCarthyís Blood Meridian is widely considered one of the greatest novels ever written. And deservedly so.

    I pitched to DC a LSH run but they did the three boot instead. Since I loved those characters so much I tried to do a book called Hypertime a few years later. It would have starred then Post ZH Legion dimension hopping trying to find a home. The high concept is pretty much Exiles, but that was pretty much Sliders anyway.

    I grew tired of the comic industry. Itís so small and that forces everyone to pretend everyone else is equally talented when thatís just not true. Thereís no way everyone likes the work of everyone else. Smiles and facades.

    I had pitched an er spin-off called Without Borders to NBC back in 2008, I think it was. Maybe 07? NBC said no, and I thought about trying at HBO but Arrendts left and all my contacts were just about dried up.

    I ended up self publishing it in 2017 as Gethsemane. I could make a quilt out of my rejection letters. I was having trouble with the middle until I heard a missionary talk about her prison work in El Salvador. Blew the damn thing wide open. I actually went down there a few months later, saw some kids with machine guns, some bad neighborhoods that make my beloved Baltimore look like fucking Mayberry and it changed my life more than anything.

    Hey, everyone, thanks for reading. Check out Gethsemane at https://www.amazon.com/Gethsemane-No...r=8-1-fkmrnull

    Iím hoping to have Amber out this year as well but weíll see how it progresses. The Hunting Party is available too and The Coyote Trail will soon follow. I had a collection of stories prepped but was unhappy with some of them so thatís why the ones I like were done individually.

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    Wow. Thanks for sharing your experiences, it really opens my eyes to a different perspective from someone who isn't just a fan, but as someone who's carved a real range of expertise for himself. I'll also look into your recommendations. I've been trying to get more into reading again (beyond comics of course)

  6. #6
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT Winslow View Post

    I don’t like JMS. I’ve not liked almost anything he’s ever written.
    I loved his Ghostbusters stuff. Bablyon 5 was hit or miss.

    His Spider-man though was fairly horrible.

    The totem stuff was completley out of place in Spider-lore. The idea that Peter was destined to be a hero goes completley against the core idea that Petey was just a normal guy that happened to be in the right place at the time.

    He seemed to favor poorly developed cheap knockoffs of better villains over the classic Spidey rogues. As much as he seemed to love Morlun, the guy was a one-note villain with all the development and personality of a sheet of paper until Slott got a hold of him.

    He wrote Peter and MJ as though they had suddenly gotten 15 years older overnight completely changed every aspect of who Aunt May was, and ditched the rest of the supporting cast.

    I think a lot of the people who talk about how great he was are just doing so in order to have more ammo they can throw against OMD. Have people forgot about Spider-man growing Wolverine claws and eating a villains head?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    IThe totem stuff was completley out of place in Spider-lore. The idea that Peter was destined to be a hero goes completley against the core idea that Petey was just a normal guy that happened to be in the right place at the time.
    And yet that twist did much to inform the franchise redefining Spider-Verse.

    He seemed to favor poorly developed cheap knockoffs of better villains over the classic Spidey rogues. As much as he seemed to love Morlun, the guy was a one-note villain with all the development and personality of a sheet of paper until Slott got a hold of him.
    Slott didn't do anything with Morlun that JMS didn't do. All Slott did was make a whole family of the same one-note characters and had them eat people in a one-note story.

    He wrote Peter and MJ as though they had suddenly gotten 15 years older overnight completely changed every aspect of who Aunt May was, and ditched the rest of the supporting cast.
    You mean he wrote them as adults in a mature relationship...and don't act like DeFalco, Mackie, Michelinie and DeMatties weren't writing them like that for most of the 90s prior to Chapter One and the relaunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I think a lot of the people who talk about how great he was are just doing so in order to have more ammo they can throw against OMD
    I love how you have this unfathomable ability to peer into people's heads and come up with such an assumption. Oh wait, you possess no ability.

    I didn't like The Other either. JMS made up for that with Back In Black. Seasons one and five of Babylon 5 were terrible. Everything in between was amongst the pinnacle of 90s sci-fi drama. Everyone has bad days.

    People will like what they like. Who are you to assume what they think?
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 05-18-2019 at 12:37 PM.

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Russ840's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I loved his Ghostbusters stuff. Bablyon 5 was hit or miss.

    His Spider-man though was fairly horrible.

    The totem stuff was completley out of place in Spider-lore. The idea that Peter was destined to be a hero goes completley against the core idea that Petey was just a normal guy that happened to be in the right place at the time.

    He seemed to favor poorly developed cheap knockoffs of better villains over the classic Spidey rogues. As much as he seemed to love Morlun, the guy was a one-note villain with all the development and personality of a sheet of paper until Slott got a hold of him.

    He wrote Peter and MJ as though they had suddenly gotten 15 years older overnight completely changed every aspect of who Aunt May was, and ditched the rest of the supporting cast.

    I think a lot of the people who talk about how great he was are just doing so in order to have more ammo they can throw against OMD. Have people forgot about Spider-man growing Wolverine claws and eating a villains head?
    No thatís not the case, for me a least. I love all of his run excluding OMD. The spider totem stuff is ambiguous enough for me that itís not definitive in saying that it is destiny.

    Funny how you think Morlun is one note ( I cannot really argue ) before Slott, yet Slott went all in with the totem and destiny aspect.

    MJ and Peter were written as mature, competent adults which, to me , felt consistent with there portrayal since Michelinie wrote them.

    You are right about aunt May. She changed, but for the better. She was a useless character since her death in 400 and JMS gave her some much needed character development.

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    The supporting cast weren't forgotten about during that era either, unless you're one of those types that presume ASM is the only title you should read

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    ...The totem stuff was completley out of place in Spider-lore. The idea that Peter was destined to be a hero goes completley against the core idea that Petey was just a normal guy that happened to be in the right place at the time...
    I couldn't possibly agree with you more exactly for the reason you outlined. I've never liked the Spider Totem aspect and I am deeply disappointed it has been retained. Mysticism has no place in Spider-Man which has always revolved around science fiction if anything.
    Last edited by Celgress; 05-18-2019 at 12:30 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  11. #11
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    The supporting cast weren't forgotten about during that era either, unless you're one of those types that presume ASM is the only title you should read
    The satellites having more supporting cast stuff will never be a good rebuttal to the main book lacking a fundamental part of Spider-Man and the franchise's appeal.
    heroine addict we love you come back

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The satellites having more supporting cast stuff will never be a good rebuttal to the main book lacking a fundamental part of Spider-Man and the franchise's appeal.
    Back then, nobody subscribed to the idea a main book for Spider-Man defined anything. That was entirely an invention of the BND team prioritising ASM as the main book post-OMD.

    Speaking of that, JMS prioritised the family life with the Parkers because he knew he had a limited amount of time in which he could write the marriage. He knew when he signed on they were getting rid of it, he wanted all the time in the run to make it seem important to the lore and to the readership. Other characters would have gotten in the way.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 05-18-2019 at 12:36 PM.

  13. #13
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    ASM is the primary flagship title. It always continues and spearheads the franchise while other books end. It is the book that should have the most important things happen in it, it is the book that should have all of the thing that make Spider-Man Spider-Man. This was understood in the 70's because they knew these other books only existed to make more money, became less understood in the 80's, and then not understood in the 90's, which is coincidentally when the line became a clusterfuck where nonsense like Sidekick's Revenge and Assassination Plot are getting published in the main book while Child Within is relegated to the B-Book. If you are writing ASM and can't fit in pages for the supporting cast, which is so fleshed out in comparison to other superheroes that it's fundamental, it is a flaw with your run.
    heroine addict we love you come back

  14. #14
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    ASM is the primary flagship title. It always continues and spearheads the franchise while other books end. It is the book that should have the most important things happen in it, it is the book that should have all of the thing that make Spider-Man Spider-Man. This was understood in the 70's because they knew these other books only existed to make more money, became less understood in the 80's, and then not understood in the 90's, which is coincidentally when the line became a clusterfuck where nonsense like Sidekick's Revenge and Assassination Plot are getting published in the main book while Child Within is relegated to the B-Book. If you are writing ASM and can't fit in pages for the supporting cast, which is so fleshed out in comparison to other superheroes that it's fundamental, it is a flaw with your run.
    Snoop, I'm surprised at you!! You're always so positive and cheery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    If you are writing ASM and can't fit in pages for the supporting cast, which is so fleshed out in comparison to other superheroes that it's fundamental, it is a flaw with your run.
    There was no flaw. You had books with the supporting cast all involved, it's a flaw of your own if you didn't purchase them.

    Sales were also stable, proving the book could sustain itself with just those three alone.

    Hell, the newspaper strip from Stan, Larry and Ron had been roughly 100% just Peter and MJ for YEARS with May only showing up sporadically every decade.

    Like I said, JMS was prioritising. The Parkers story had to take centre stage with the limited time they had with it.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 05-18-2019 at 01:32 PM.

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