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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Now I’m curious to know what it originally looked like if that’s true. From what I recall, Azz only took the WW job after Didio basically strongarmed him into doing it by telling him what the plans for Diana were if he didn’t take the book. Apparently they were so bad Azz caved and took the job. Frankly given the state of DC Editorial at the time I have no problem buying that Azz saved Diana from a much worse fate.
    "A much worse fate"?????

    OMG!!!!!!! What were they intending?

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I don't know I heard they wanted to keep her whole history true. So depending on who they got could have worked

  3. #48
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    "A much worse fate"?????

    OMG!!!!!!! What were they intending?
    No clue, itís just what I heard.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I don't know I heard they wanted to keep her whole history true. So depending on who they got could have worked
    I find that very doubtful honestly. DC has wanted Diana to be the Daughter of Zeus for a while now, and they felt so strongly about it that it was the one thing they didnít let Rucka touch while allowing him free reign otherwise. Bringing back her whole history would mean the exact opposite of that, keeping the clay origin for example. Itís far more likely in my mind that they planned on giving the book to someone like Lobdell who would just write what editorial wanted him too.

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why does she need a god as a father to understand her as a character?

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Now Iím curious to know what it originally looked like if thatís true. From what I recall, Azz only took the WW job after Didio basically strongarmed him into doing it by telling him what the plans for Diana were if he didnít take the book. Apparently they were so bad Azz caved and took the job. Frankly given the state of DC Editorial at the time I have no problem buying that Azz saved Diana from a much worse fate.
    Source? I've read a bunch of interviews with Azzarello, and at most they say he talked with DiDio about Wonder Woman, heard the proposal what DC wanted to do, did his pitch, and got the job. No strong-arming involved.
    ęSpeaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given outĽ (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Something that has yet to really be discussed here is how inconsistent Rebirth is. In Rebirth continuity, Wonder Woman is still the daughter of Zeus, but she does not gain her powers from her divine parentage...but by having them bestowed upon her by the Olympian pantheon. So WW is a demi-god without any actually demi-god powers...

    Obviously Rucka wrote his run ignoring the demi-god origin, which is fine for an individual, out of continuity story, but his story is suppose too be the base in which all future runs are built on. Wilson is also ignoring the 'canon' origin of Wonder Woman too. Even though one of her supporting characters, Aphrodite, is at least a relative of Wonder Woman (if not a sister), though the two don't behave as if they are family and they never have really broached the subject either.

    I can't imagine the editors of any other major DC character allowing authors to pick and choose continuity. I mean, if someone were a fresh author on a Superman book they may be genuinely confused as to whether Supes parents are alive or dead (or half and half) as there have been so many contradictory depictions over the years, but an editor is (hopefully) going to enforce the current canon and correct the author if they slip up.
    It's really not that inconsistent though. Rucka and Wilson are choosing not to focus on the Zeus parentage, but they never outright say he isn't her father. And not all of Zeus's demigod children got super strength like Heracles, so Diana being otherwise unremarkable as a demigod and getting her divine powers form another source isn't a contradiction. It's not like there has ever been any logic in how Zeus passes down his genetics anyway.

    Aphrodite doesn't behave like a sibling, but she didn't really in the Azz run either (cuz she was basically a prop). I don't think the Greek gods made much of a habit of acting chummy towards their half mortal siblings so it might be OOC for an Olympian to do so, and I honestly don't think Wilson or much of the fanbase are interested in the subject being broached because it inevitably leads back to Daddy, and that's not what we're here for.

    I'd say continuity in Rebirth, for better or sometimes worse, has been pretty consistent throughout the various changing of hands. I would prefer a "everything happened" sort of continuity, but with Diana's history being even more chaotic than Superman's (from her various mini-revamps during pre-Crisis to Perez to Azzarello) makes that nearly impossible. None of it is going to mesh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Y’know, it’s a good thing that certain people will never have a chance to write for this book. It IS possible to write such a society or group of people as flawed/imperfect, but redeemable. The amazons in azz’s run were so deeply flawed, that I don’t recall any redeeming qualities about them to my recollection.
    Yep. Perez and Jimenez, for all that I knock some of the things the former did, were really good at writing the Amazons as layered and distinct with reasons for what they did, and not be perfect. Marston may have wrote them as his perfect borderline Mary Sues, sometimes perhaps when he shouldn't, but at least they were weird, different and fun. Azz's Amazons are one note cartoon characters.

    I cannot fathom anyone seeing the message the classic Amazons send as being something toxic and viewing the New 52 one as an improvement. It uses tropes that were cliches in the time of the original myths!

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Source? I've read a bunch of interviews with Azzarello, and at most they say he talked with DiDio about Wonder Woman, heard the proposal what DC wanted to do, did his pitch, and got the job. No strong-arming involved.
    Maybe “strong-arming” is too harsh a word, basically it’s what you said. It’s just that what DC “wanted” to do was so bad it convinced Azz to send in an alternate pitch instead, or at least that was what I remembered reading at one point. Been a while since I read the interview where it was stated, I’ll have to track it down at some point because I remember a lot of other interesting background on the Azz WW run.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Maybe “strong-arming” is too harsh a word, basically it’s what you said. It’s just that what DC “wanted” to do was so bad it convinced Azz to send in an alternate pitch instead, or at least that was what I remembered reading at one point. Been a while since I read the interview where it was stated, I’ll have to track it down at some point because I remember a lot of other interesting background on the Azz WW run.
    azz didn't even know WW as a character, and never showed interest in her clasic elements. Since he felt the need to change them all in his run. So why would he want to "save" her character, when he didn't even know what her character is about and didn't care in the first place? DC has made her a villain, has made her the secretary of the jl, took away her powers, etc. What else could they do to her that they haven't done already? Maybe a combination of the 3? A powerless secretary of the Injustice League?

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Maybe “strong-arming” is too harsh a word, basically it’s what you said. It’s just that what DC “wanted” to do was so bad it convinced Azz to send in an alternate pitch instead, or at least that was what I remembered reading at one point. Been a while since I read the interview where it was stated, I’ll have to track it down at some point because I remember a lot of other interesting background on the Azz WW run.
    I recall these statements as well. Azz said what they were planning to do would "destroy her."

    I would really like to know what elicited that reaction, because at best Diana in his run managed to be well written in some instances in spite of his changes, not because of them.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Azz also said she was boring. So I question if he didn't care. I wonder if there would have been another way to have rebooted her.

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