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  1. #271
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    What I would say is the heart of the "problem" with Tynion is that he didn't write an arc for Bruce. He wrote an arc for every other character - Kate with the Colony and her dad, Tim with the Knights, Steph with Tim and Batman, Cass with her mother (which was unfinished due to the run being cut short), Clayface with Cass and Viktoria, Jean-Paul with Ascalon - I guess you could say Luke never got a full arc, but I still loved him.

    But Bruce was just there, trying to support his family. His desires don't change from the beginning to the end. And I don't mind that - because as I've said, until King, I never really wanted Bruce to have an arc, because the writers were never interested in doing anything but build him up then drag him back down (see also: Hush). With King, I have hope that he'll actually get a tiny bit futher up the mountain of life. (And if he doesn't, as I've said many times, I'm gonna be pretty down on King.) So Tynion's idea of Bruce as a complicated guy, but one who wants the best for his family and his city? I'm on board with that. Now, if he's writing the main title, I think he's probably gonna give Bruce some arcs. Which will be cool.
    I agree that Bruce didn't need an arc. My issue is that Tynion, from my perspective, did fall into that aspect of dragging Bruce down and wasn't always fair to Bruce's perspective compared to other characters. And while his voice for characters like Kate were on-point throughout the entire series, his Bruce sometimes felt more clinical or standard aside from certain significant moments.

    I guess another issue of mine is that, while I'm glad he gave every character an arc, I don't feel like he realized them all as well as he could have.
    I think this is a good reminder to myself not to always blame Didio. I still think he's used his significant influence to make some things a lot worse (War Games, the n52), but I also think he's worked hard to make some really good stuff, like Rebirth.
    I think Rebirth was more Johns then Didio.

  2. #272
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I agree that Bruce didn't need an arc. My issue is that Tynion, from my perspective, did fall into that aspect of dragging Bruce down and wasn't always fair to Bruce's perspective compared to other characters. And while his voice for characters like Kate were on-point throughout the entire series, his Bruce sometimes felt more clinical or standard aside from certain significant moments.

    I guess another issue of mine is that, while I'm glad he gave every character an arc, I don't feel like he realized them all as well as he could have.

    I think Rebirth was more Johns then Didio.
    Interesting - I never felt Bruce's perspective was dragged down or unfair. Even though Steph is my favorite character, I always felt Batman had the right perspective (given the situation in Gotham), or when he's in conflict with Tim - it didn't feel like Tynion was trying to say Batman is wrong. (I also didn't have a problem with my favorite characters being wrong - it's all part of their arcs!)

    I would agree that some arcs - Steph stands out for me, obviously - but several of them had missing pieces that I think he was planning to get to in 982-999. But the way he managed to close almost all of them out, including Steph's, was just so impressive to me.

    Johns drove the themes of Rebirth, but Didio actually stood on a stage, livestreaming, and apologized for the n52. From someone at his level, that's really impressive. Even with all my frustration with him, that is a moment of personal connection that I've rarely seen in an executive, and much as I think he tanked a ton of stuff in Rebirth for no good reason, I am trying to see him as a more complex, rounded person, rather than just the guy who drives comics into the ground.
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  3. #273
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Interesting - I never felt Bruce's perspective was dragged down or unfair. Even though Steph is my favorite character, I always felt Batman had the right perspective (given the situation in Gotham), or when he's in conflict with Tim - it didn't feel like Tynion was trying to say Batman is wrong. (I also didn't have a problem with my favorite characters being wrong - it's all part of their arcs!)
    I don't think he was trying to say Batman was wrong per se, but it felt like he put more thought into the arguments against Batman and his methods then allowing Batman to better articulate his points, so it always came off like Batman was always wrong or just really couldn't defend himself well.
    I would agree that some arcs - Steph stands out for me, obviously - but several of them had missing pieces that I think he was planning to get to in 982-999. But the way he managed to close almost all of them out, including Steph's, was just so impressive to me.
    I also don't think the pacing of the arcs sometimes helped, but that's me.
    Johns drove the themes of Rebirth, but Didio actually stood on a stage, livestreaming, and apologized for the n52. From someone at his level, that's really impressive. Even with all my frustration with him, that is a moment of personal connection that I've rarely seen in an executive, and much as I think he tanked a ton of stuff in Rebirth for no good reason, I am trying to see him as a more complex, rounded person, rather than just the guy who drives comics into the ground.
    That's fair. I think Didio is somewhat misguided even when it feels like his heart is in the right place.

  4. #274
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think he was trying to say Batman was wrong per se, but it felt like he put more thought into the arguments against Batman and his methods then allowing Batman to better articulate his points, so it always came off like Batman was always wrong or just really couldn't defend himself well.

    I also don't think the pacing of the arcs sometimes helped, but that's me.
    It's true that he gave more space to the argument against Batman. And that's probably a weakness. I just sort of assumed all the things I personally believe about Batman's argument in my head.

    And it's true - pacing is not always Tynion's strength. But he almost always gave me character moments and cool stuff that kept me okay with it all.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  5. #275
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    so Tony Daniel will supply the art for Tynion
    This seems like a good team to me

  6. #276
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Cautiously optimist on the new team because while Tynion can have great ideas at times, he sometimes also ditch them quickly for a new gig (like the poor Immortal Men could tell us).

    However, his Justice league Dark is one of the best books out there currently, and I think that, having a really good handle on the larger Bat-corner of the DCU, and a tendency to play well with other writers, he could bring some serious A-game, even just as a temporary replacement.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    so Tony Daniel will supply the art for Tynion
    This seems like a good team to me
    No it's not given what we know of Daniel's previous sketchy history with writers. There is a reason DC let him go solo after his run on Morrison's Batman or that Johns quit midway in his OYL run of Teen Titans when paired with Daniel.

    And Tynion really just screens filler run.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 09-21-2019 at 02:41 PM.

  8. #278
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    What an underwhelming team.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  9. #279

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    What an underwhelming team.
    Yeah, I'm not impressed either. Tynion seems like a very decent and sweet guy, but his DC stuff just never seems to go above tepid for me. Which probably has a lot to do with him having to work under various edicts from editorial and other writers (like his issues of Justice League), but even when he's on a longer leash there's rarely any urgency to his storytelling, and his villains never seem to really pop. And then there's Daniel, whose sharp angular style never worked for me and judging by the latest issues of Batman hasn't gotten better with time.
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  10. #280
    Incredible Member regg215's Avatar
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    At least they kept daniel for art. miki is really great as well. At the very least when tynion is having bruce get embarrassed and lose fights in one punch while being lectured by stephanie brown, outsmarted by tim drake and corrected by batwoman the art will look good. Bruce won't have a character arc but he will look cool, so I guess that is something.

    Hopefully this is just a filler run, but with this and the rumored luke fox "batman" story, seems like we will have 2-3 years with no development/arc or story for Bruce in the Batman title. Hopefully Batman/Catwoman is great and tomasi keeps delivering solid stories in tec.
    Last edited by regg215; 09-21-2019 at 05:49 PM.
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  11. #281
    Not a Newbie Member JBatmanFan05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    Tynion ... his DC stuff just never seems to go above tepid for me.
    My thoughts exactly.

    I'm really not excited for Tynion's interim run.

    Batman Universe by Bendis is the best non-King Batman book out there right now and I've never read Bendis before in my entire life. So much fun.
    Thank you AMericA for votinG for chAnge.

  12. #282
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    James Tynion is a very good writer, but I don't think that he is a writer who has a real vision. Batman need writers who has a real voice and identity. From a corporate point of view I understand why DC chose him , after Tom King he could be seen as safe and reassuring, and fans like him.But I'm afraid that he is too bland.
    Last edited by lordozone; 09-21-2019 at 06:37 PM.
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  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordozone View Post
    James Tynion is a very good writer, but I don't think that he is a writer who has a real vision. Batman need writers who has a real voice and identity. From a corporate point of view I understand why DC chose him , after Tom King he could be seen as safe and reassuring, and fans like him.But I'm afraid that he is too bland.
    I have a feeling this is exactly the point. Tom King said they needed to build to some big event stuff next year and so they brought in a safe, in house writer who will act as filler until they relaunch with a new team and new #1 after 100.

  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    I have a feeling this is exactly the point. Tom King said they needed to build to some big event stuff next year and so they brought in a safe, in house writer who will act as filler until they relaunch with a new team and new #1 after 100.
    Yeah, I'm affraid that it's the point. But they could have chosen a writer who is at the same time corporate and with a real voice, like Chip Zdarsky, Mark Waid, Gail Simone, Christopher Priest...
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  15. #285
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    And I'm not a fan of the Tom King Batman run, I particularly disliked his latest stories. But at least he had a really personal and different story to tell. Tynion is just a slightly better Scott Lobdell: he will write a good story designed by commitee, who will all forgot next year.
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