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  1. #1
    Spectacular Member
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    Default Thoughts on the long-term, generational change for Batman?

    Tom King got permission to do something really big to change the character in the last 15 issues of his run (which I guess would start next January and go through summer). Supposedly it's long-term and permanent, but if he's doing this before he ends his run, what could be so big to force new writers to go along with it? At least for quite a while.

    Any theories?

    Most popular guesses seem to be 1) Publicly unmasking him, 2) marriage for real this time, 3) Killing someone, 4) Retiring/quitting

    I think retiring has been done several times in the last decade, so that's unlikely. I think him and Selina will get married, but I honestly don't know if that qualifies as that big of a change (it is a big change, but you'd think the next writer could certainly get rid of that quickly if they wanted).

    The public unmasking is a big deal. That would definitely have long-term repercussions. I think that's possible.

    I really don't think he'll kill anyone, but I guess that would definitely be changing the character. I just feel like that's doubtful for some reason.

    Another possibility I've only seen a couple of people bring up is a baby being born. He's had tons of kids obviously, but a baby would be an addition that's hard for new people to get rid of, as we've seen with Damian. So that could happen too, imo.

  2. #2
    Son of Satan DevilBat66's Avatar
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    I think it's one of two things.

    #1- Bats gets married for reals.

    or

    #2- Batman starts killing.


    Since Didio runs DC, my money's on #2, sadly.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    A long-term/permanent thing would mean future authors wouldn't be allowed to change it. So, Bat/Cat wedding isn't out of the question there.

    Killing? Don't see it. That's been one of his defining characteristics that even the most casual of fans somehow know and cherish.

    Retiring? Slightly more possible, but I don't see anyone going forward agreeing to it.

    Having say, Helena Wayne? I'd put it right under the marriage, maybe even part of the marriage going forward.

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Being unmasked has zero chance of lasting, just like how it didn’t last particularly long when it happened to Dick and Clark. I am thinking the baby thing sounds the most likely to stick. It’s a big change but it’s also a pretty small change. Don’t even need to tie Bruce to Selena just as Damian hardly tied Bruce down to Talia. Him killing Bane though. I’m on the same boat as the op on that one. I don’t know how likely that one is. I’ll say this much it wouldn’t be without buildup given what he’s pulled on Riddler and KGBeast.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 05-20-2019 at 06:47 PM.

  5. #5
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    They won't kill him off or retire him. I just can't see that happening.

    An unmasking seems too easy to reverse.

    So with that, I'll go with the actual marriage and possible kid.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Dead/retired/replaced seems less likely to me, just because we literally already had that with Morrison and Snyder so not only would it feel too soon, its less believable of actually sticking. Same with the unmasking. The marriage happening is the most likely, and while having a kid does make sense, I don't know how exactly they would handle it, since I highly doubt they would keep them as a baby, and I wonder what excuse they would do to make them kid or teen aged.
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  7. #7
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Public unmasking is not gonna happen
    Forget about Morrison, It happen to Dick Grayson just a few years and it didnt stick, It wasnt even that relevant for his spy roll.

    PERMANENT Retiring/Quiting is completely absurd, there has to be a Batman, and being replaced is something that already happen multiple times including the Knightfall so its hard to see it as being done again any time soon and being pointed as this long term change.

    Killing Bane or anyone would be wrong on many levels
    starting from the point that Snyder just made an entire comic with Grim Knight devoted on why the idea of a Batman who kills anyone who is against him just wouldnt work
    and killing a single one would equal a huge betrayal on thie idea of Batman
    Also you have to remember that this is exactly the whole point of the ending of the War of Jokes an Riddles, he actually breaks and tries to kil the Riddler and the Joker stops him, this is why the story had much weight for him to the point that he has to confess this to Selina before hearing her answer, because its his lowest point.
    and finally The whole arc that starts on issue 75 is City of Bane, Bane is kind of the main villain of the arc, so if Bane is not the one getting killed on issue 75 then someone else would be killed, which would make even less sense than just killing Bane.

    Wedding for realz
    Thematically is the choice that makes the most sense, but im not sure how would it work.

    Issue 74 solicit indicates that Bruce is brought to the desert by Thomas with someone trapped in a box, which I think pretty much everyone can guess that is Selina but there is no confirmation until the issue is out.
    and we already know that the objective of Thomas is for Bruce to stop being Batman, so my prediction would be that he is dragging him to realize that he needs to retire an stay with Selina. then issue 75 just simply how that he has accepted not to be Batman anymore and stay with her out of Gotham, pretty much Batman Rises style.

    There are a couple of problems with this idea, the obvious one being that the retiring cannot possibly stick on any way shape or form so he has to comeback, I guess that could be the driving force of the next arc but I cannot see how it could be resolve so quickly so maybe it will even drag for multiple arcs, remember that King's run is planned to finish on issue 100, so maybe the return to batman could be the entire next year's arc.
    second problem, this is pretty much what Snyder explored with Superheavy and Bloom.
    third problem
    and most importantly: this is not really Bruce's choice
    is Selina's choice
    since she is the one who left Batman then she is the one who has to accept again and accepting when he is no longer Batman would be weird after being dragged across the dessert by the father of Bruce who came from another reality.

    ofcourse I maybe completely off in my prediction but I just dont see how he could get married in the middle of City of Bane before compromising on basically quiting Batman and then coming back

  8. #8
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    The change isn't happening in issue 75. That issue is the turning point for the rest of the series. King said the City of Bane arc lasts 8 issues, then there's a 5 issue aftermath, then the last 15 issues of the run is when the big change that lasts a generation, never been done before, etc. is happening.

    So whatever it is, it's going to happen after all the Bane stuff is over.

  9. #9
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    I do not mind if he has a child with selina but them being married permanently I do not care for.. I would love to see the custody battle between bruce and selina on who would be a better parent for helena that is a story that I would be okay with. Now that will bring new angst for batman so people who like stuff like that will be contented.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    The only thing's been written in his book, as far as I know, was Gotham Girl will kill him. Though replacing him with someone else match what Didio said that he was preparing something big with Dick, it doesn't match what he said about he doesn't want Dick to be older than Batman. I also don't see this being permanent.

    I think Gotham Girl will kill him, I just don't think it will stick.

    Marriage is more likely to be permanent. Even though King has been portraying marriage with Catwoman as the thing that makes Batman happy, future writers can easily introduce conflict and portray it differently.

    Batman killing someone isn't a new idea. He killed in Golden Age and almost killed KG Beast. Only later did they walk back on that. It's also something that can be easily justified. So I think this is even more likely than the marriage.

    Unmasking can lead to death or marriage and replacement Batman. So I can't see it happening.

  11. #11
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    Marriage honestly feels like the best combination of "Genuine change-up to the bedrock of the franchise going forward" while simultaneously being "something Dan Didio could order undone without too much fuss if his precious status quo feels ruined." The shaky nature of BatCat as a relationship and King's own "misfire" with wedding 1.0 could give you a quick out itf you wanted it.

    Too many of the other options feel like either "meh" shock-value changes, like killing or unmasking, that would still wind up easy to move past or erase if need be. And retiring at this point really wouldn't be a change-up, since we've all seen it multiple times now.
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  12. #12
    Incredible Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    They'll get married. I don't see what else they could do that would fit.
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  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsense man View Post
    I do not mind if he has a child with selina but them being married permanently I do not care for.. I would love to see the custody battle between bruce and selina on who would be a better parent for helena that is a story that I would be okay with. Now that will bring new angst for batman so people who like stuff like that will be contented.
    I'm so over angst.

  14. #14
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Marriage honestly feels like the best combination of "Genuine change-up to the bedrock of the franchise going forward" while simultaneously being "something Dan Didio could order undone without too much fuss if his precious status quo feels ruined." The shaky nature of BatCat as a relationship and King's own "misfire" with wedding 1.0 could give you a quick out itf you wanted it.
    Not to mention the way they were originally approaching the marriage was treating it more symbolically compared to what I think people were expecting.

  15. #15
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    What if it was Batman killing the Flashpoint Batman, even by accident. One has to wonder how a death like THAT would impact Bruce's psyche ?

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