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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014

    Default Rebirth speculation: The Reverse-Martha

    Am I the only one seeing significance in the fact that Superman's and Batman's fathers were both 'resurrected' around the same time? I can't believe that's a coincidence.

    I'm calling this phenomenon "The Reverse-Martha" and I anticipate a payoff of some sort but am a little surprised nobody seems to be talking about this. One of them coming back is a radical storyline; both of them coming back has to have some significance IMO.

    Jor-El and Thomas Wayne are each essential parts of Batman's/Superman's origins and their perma-deadness is too. In 80 years of comics we've never seen either resurrected in any real way in continuity. Suddenly Superman's father and Batman's father are both back? I have to believe that's not for nothing.

    Further, they each have connections to the Rebirth/D-Clock storyline with the Mr. Oz stuff, "The Button," and both of them apparently being brought back by Dr. Manhattan.

    Is this a thematic thing? Does Dr. Manhattan have a thing about fathers and might that play into D-Clock in its endgame?

    Interested to know what others think of "The Reverse-Martha" and what the payoff might be if there's a payoff at all.

  2. #2


    I'm not sure where they are going with all this, but I do not believe it's a coincidence that the two main pillars of the DC are having their lives complicated for the worse by the arrival of dark reflections of their formerly dead fathers, whom they both idolized. Meanwhile, Wonder Woman, defined greatly by her ability to know the truth, has found that much of her life was based upon lies.

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018


    We need a comic where Oz, Zeus and Thomas all team up to meddle with their kids lives. Anyway interesting point about Doc M, you might be onto something there. If I remember correctly Jon’s dad was the one who talked him out of becoming a watchmaker to become a scientist, which of course led to his accident. At one point in the graphic novel he was debating in his head whether his fate was really his dad’s fault. So yeah he did have daddy issues. Maybe that’s why he toyed around with Jor-El (and Thomas?). To see how messing with the fates of the fathers impacts the fates of the sons.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 05-20-2019 at 07:55 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2016


    Oz has significantly reacted with the bat verse when he saved Tim but I just can't see the flashpoint Batman jumping in to save Jimmy Olson if he gets into trouble during Leviathan. Maybe the two father's will have their own world's finest team up before this is all over in the superman/Batman series.

  5. #5
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014


    This is a cheap, cynical shot, but I truly wonder if such a correlation between the Super, Bat, and Rebirth folks could actually be accomplished with the current cluster**** that is DC continuity. Still, the dead fathers are a major tie between the big two and such an attack on the family aspect of the characters could be a powerful statement o hope.

  6. #6
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018


    One thing that hasn't been answered is why did Manhattan save the Comedian as well.

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