Rumblers League Week 1: Siriel v Darth Drizzle

[KJS]

Venue: Reign of Fire London

- We can discuss the match for a week.
- Each person participating in the match can post a maximum of eight times each in that time.
- Remember to give people a chance to post links and arguments etc.
- Poll threads posted next week.

SIRIEL v DARTH DRIZZLE

[KJS]

SIRIEL'S STRATEGY

I'm a little rusty, so forgive me for this rather rudimentary strategy.

The Place
Per Cleric's clarificaiton, we're three miles apart, with a London full of dragons between us. Both Darth and my team's members are fairly ridiculous, so I feel the relevance of said dragons is fairly minimal from what I've seen in the movie.

The Plan:

Savitar
The God of Speed is, by far , the fastest character in this match. What's his job then? Well, for this match we'll keep it rather simple; he's going to speed up first Balthzar, then Doom. Yes, TV Show Barry demonstrates that power and it's before the point in time that Savitar splits up from, so he shoud know how to do it too.
Of course it has its downside, like only lasting a little while and being physically taxing, but so it goes. They can afford to be a bit sweaty if it means winning.

Balthazar
Balthazar's first action he'll cast a spell. The spell he's casting is traditional one for the League; he will stop time itself in its track. Between his possession of the Eye, the Source of All Evil's familiarity with temporal magic and Balthazar's own skill, there should be no doubt he can do this quickly.
If this move goes off, I've for all intent and purpose won since no one in the opposition can act in stopped time, so the strategy given for the others below assumes that Darth realized the threat Balthazar poses and counters this. If he didn't huh, yay? Skip to the mopping up phase.

Livewire
Livewire, grown gigantic and more powered up than ever in her show, has a designated enemy on the map; Ultron, the hyper-advanced robot, who should be highly vulnerable to her ability to enter and manipulate technology. As such, her first action will be to zap across the battlefield in the form of lightning; keeping in mind that Livewire has been shown to travel at roughly the same speed as Barry Allen himself and has demonstrated the ability to affect technology just by being near it, crossing London and reaching Ultron should be almost instantaneous for her, shutting down Ultron by sabotaging his system and drawing on his own energy sources. Since he should be the only advanced piece of technology active on the battlefield, he's practically a lightning rod for her and given the difference in speeds even using the Mother Box to boom somewhere else would only buy him a few instants' reprieve.

Absorbing Man
The other big guy on my team, Absorbing Man should have fun this match; since his role is exactly the kind of thing that he'd like, especially with the Hollow pushing him on; he's going to act as our own lightning rod to deal with our enemies's pitiful attempts at attacking, jumping in front of assaults meant for our... shall we say less invulnerable teammates. To make himself look more threatening, he'll fire blasts in the rough direction of the enemy team and at anyone that tries to approach, but I don't expect much from those; his real job is to be a big scary kaiju and discourage area of effects assaults toward my team while engaging anyone who gets too close. That might get him punted around by Purity, but since he can become functionally intangible or adamantium, he can take it.
Oh, an amusing fact; innate telepathy is magic accoridng to Charmed's intepretation of it (https://charmed.fandom.com/wiki/Telepathy), and therefore susceptible to the Hollow's absorption. If the words "telepathically assaults the entire enemy team" appear in Darth's strategy, they've just lost their innate telepathic powers after affecting him for an instant, and Absorbing Man will be glad to return the favor.

Doom
You may have noticed that my actions have been mostly passive so far; that's because the big gun is here. Doom is immune to telepathy. Doom has enough power to wipe out a planet. Doom has the power to control reality. In other words, our enemies are doomed, and he won't even have to get up from his awesome throne.
Combining the awesome might of the Reality and Power Stones through the Infinity Gauntlet, Doom won't hold back like Thanos did in the movie; he'll unleash a world-changing wave across the entire planet except his own team, unmaking all matter and leaving them on a small patch of ground, floating into space; he'll make an atmosphere for them afterward of course, just in case any enemy survived and they need to deal with them. Note that as shown in Guardian of the Galaxy, the Power Stone only takes a matter of seconds to affect entire planets. (https://youtu.be/r30nn9RqlvE?t=156)

Mopping Up
Pretty much the entire enemy team should be dead after that opening onslaught, but just in case here are some possible finishers for my team;

Doom, of course, can simply unmake his enemies with a thought, and that's very in-character for him so why change it?
Livewire has fairly limited avenue of attacks, mostly involving zapping things and manipulating electricity, so aside from Ultron she's down to just zapping, but that should be good enough for most of our relatively squishy enemies. Except for Thanos; I'm not sure how it'd interact with Gravitonium, so she'll avoid attacking him unless she has no choice. Either way, her top priority is Ultron.
Savitar... well, he's not much for offense at the moment. He'll gladly rip out Legion's heart via phasing if the opportunity shows itself though! Otherwise, he'll position Doom or Balthazar so that they deal with it.
The Source has a lot of powers and I don't want to write an essay, so to keep it short if he has to fight someone directly, he'll simply vanish their teleportaiton item (Tesseract, Sling Ring, Motherbox) and then banish them into a mirror. The exceptions are the telepaths; they get banished to Hell via opening a portal on them
Absorbing Man will stay the hell away from Ultron, but gladly take on anyone else; if they try some fancy mind switching trick like Xavier's, they can get eaten by the Hollow.

Note on dimension dumping or other ring out attempts
Balthazar, who can teleport across dimensions is the main defense there; he'll retrieve anyone who gets banished. I'll note that if the Absorbing Man is teleported through a non-technological method he'll gain the power that banished him and thus be able to come back.

If Balthazar successfully stops time
Well, as shown in Doctor Strange the Time Stone can be used to bring people out of its effect, so he'll do that to Doom, and then Doom will finish unmaking our opposition, then Absorbing Man will chow down on whatever's left.

In the event of mind control
It's a tragic fact that people who aren't Doom or Absorbing Man might be somewhat vulnerable to telepathy (though Balthazar should have pretty considerable resistance to it). If Livewire gets too uppity, the Absorbing Man will absorb her, gaining her powers rather than let her interference with Doom's noble work.

In general, if something disturbs their opening move without taking them out of the fight, my characters will proceed to act as per the Mopping Up part of the fight.

[KJS]

DARTH DRIZZLE'S STRATEGY

The Chosen
The Chosen targets Dr Doom and Balthazar with his powers and shunts their minds to the Astral plane for a duel, and leaving the pairs physical bodies vulnerable(while the Chosen can still defend his). Even though I believe a standard Telepathic attack from someone at the Chosens level would work against the "Telepathy immune" Vampires from Buffy and the Sources minor telepathic powers an Astral plane battle is more familiar for the Chosen.

Without any power boosting items David would destroy Doom/Balthazar as he has practiced and mastered Astral Combat from a clumsy start to an epic ending. Now with the NZT pills enhancing him mentally and drawing some power from the Mind Stone for familiarity he would take down Doom/Balthazar while countering any Time manipulation/Reality warping powers with his own(just like against the Shadow King) should it arise.
Taken Out: Dr Doom, Balthazar Blake



The Phoenix Queen
The dually amped Queen starts by using her highly amped telepathy to attack her enemies who unfortunately can't resist her moves starting with Absorbing Man. She quickly shuts down the Monster Man before he can any real damage(and forcing him to human form)then focuses on Livewire, and Savitar who are suddenly shackled and mind fragged by her dual TP/TK assault.

Then while they are out she uses her considerable TK powers to crush or atomize them taking the out the fight. The Hollow if it can't be destroyed is condensed to a baseball size mass with TK and trapped.
Taken Out: Absorbing Man, Livewire, Savitar


The Omni-Titan
He starts by teleporting his team to or near the location of Doom and Balthazar then uses the Space Stone to phase their bodies. This makes their items/clothes drop to the ground(so Doom can't use the Infinity Gauntlet and Balthazar can't use his Time Stone or Vest) and halting any attacks and allows Thanos to take the 3 Stones and add them to his own Gauntlet.

Using the Reality Stone he turns Doom/Balthazar/Absorbing Man into chickens and teleports them in the middle of a pack of Dragons where they are eaten. Then he uses the Power Stone to blast away Livewire and Savitar, giving him the satisfaction of victory with the Stones once again.
Taken Out: Rulers of Infnity


The Ultra Adaptron
He starts his first field test of his upgraded abilities and simultaniously targets Livewire on offense and adjusts his sheilds for defense. With his Motherbox upgraded Borg sheilding he account's for giant Livewires boosted lightning and Kaiju Absorbing Man beam attacks and sheilds himself, Phoenix, and the Chosen from attacks.

Adjusting his offensive weapons to destabilize electricity through energy modulation and Trek science he uses sustained blasts from both hands to attack her until she reverts to human form and is weakened. Then he uses his Motherbox upgraded strength to knock her down, then converts his arm into a cannon and blasts her through the heart taking her out the fight.
Taken Out: Livewire



The Shaker of Stars
She targets Evil Speedster #3 and intercepts any blitz attempt as she speeds at him. Savitar being speed centralized has a step or two on Purity pure speed wise, but it's not to fast for her Kryptonian speed/vision to be able to track or tag him(as Supergirl keeps up with the Flash). Meanwhile her strength/durability dwarfs his and her array of powers helps her out in this fight. A she speeds near him she uses her Vertigo inducing vibration powers to suddenly throw Savitar off balance.

She then uses her TK to pick up Savitar off the ground into the air negating his speed powers and opens a portal with her sling ring to a place she had strong connection to, the Home Base of the World killers. She tosses him through and closes the portal trapping him and taking him out of the fight. She then boosts herself physically and flies around like a Missles taking out any enemies left.
Taken Out: Savitar

Contingecy Plans/Notes:
With little to no TP defenses for my opponents the original plan should work without issue. Distance isn't a factor for Thanos, Chosen, or Phoenix as at base with no items their abilities can/have effected things much farther than a mile away, and their items have also effected things much further than the starting distance of the enemies here.

But for covering bases if the TP attacks don't go as planned:

Chosen uses his Mind Stone/NZT boosted Reality manipulation powers to turn Dooms Gauntlet into dinner plate and Balthazars Eye/Vest into baseball and glove then atomizes them into Ash with his TK.

Phoenix uses her TK to freeze and shackle Doom/Balthazar preventing them from using their Infinity Stones or halting any attack or spell they used pre freeze. Then when applicable the mutant duo use their overwhelming TK to crush their opponents or turn them to dust in a flash.

Thanos if the phasing doesn't go as planned uses his Graviton abilities to increase the Gravity around Doom/Balthazar tremendously preventing them from moving/attacking and crushing them to death in the process.

Ultron for a backup attack against Livewire gets close to her and Boomtubes them both over the Ocean and drops/pulls her into the drink to take her down. His personal sheilds adjusted her energy signature should allow Ultron to grab her.

Purity if Savitar doesn't blitz stays on anti blitz duty and protects the team from Dragon attacks or sneak attacks from teleporting enemies with TK/Sonic attacks to block projectiles and her Strength/Sling Ring portals to counter physical attacks.

[Darth Drizzle]

I'll start by answering some main questions.

For Time Manipulation:
David's power allows him to control time(it's in his wiki) and he can and does freely use all of his powers while Time is stopped. It starts near the end of episode 6 when suddenly everyone in the building with David enters a alternate reality with different roles and people mixed in and it isn't explained until the next episode.Here is a recap of episode 7 which shows that when being fired upon by a Tommy Gun 6ft away he stopped time and shunted everyone's minds to the Astral Plane as a panicked defensive move.

He then comes out of it(starting time again) and uses TK to catch the bullets in his hand effortlessly. And this power is now boosted by NZT and the Mind Stone giving him the intelligence to master this ability and a massive raw power boost from the Stone to expand his ability to true master status.
* Side Note- I have some but in general Legion clips are hard to find and if anyone has Hulu both seasons are on it.

For TP=Magic:
Jean Grey is a mutant and her powers are mutant based so her Telepathy is not going to be absorbed by the Monster Man. Also her powers and skills dwarf anything the Charmedverse have ever seen when it comes to pure Psionic abilities and AbsMan having no mental defenses at all can't help the Hollow in this fight.

For the Match:
With Chosen powering through the Timestop his TP attack stops Doom/Balthazar in their tracks(especially boosted by NZT/Mind Stone). Also with his team near him as written they would be included in his anti Time Stop and do their moves accordingly (as at least 7 people were in David's initial time stop with him).

Jean puts down AbsMan as the Hollow can't stop her assault mentally or physically then she takes down the rest as written.

Purity as written counters Savitar and takes him out as planned.

Ultron as written is ready for Livewire and she rams into his sheilds and then while stunned Ultron takes her out as planned.

Thanos ports and phases his targets as planned as they are all to busy to try and counter him.

[Siriel]

I'm super sorry about my long silence; I was looking forward to this, then got hit with a ton of real life stuff.

The Chosen
The Chosen targets Dr Doom and Balthazar with his powers and shunts their minds to the Astral plane for a duel, and leaving the pairs physical bodies vulnerable(while the Chosen can still defend his). Even though I believe a standard Telepathic attack from someone at the Chosens level would work against the "Telepathy immune" Vampires from Buffy and the Sources minor telepathic powers an Astral plane battle is more familiar for the Chosen.

Without any power boosting items David would destroy Doom/Balthazar as he has practiced and mastered Astral Combat from a clumsy start to an epic ending. Now with the NZT pills enhancing him mentally and drawing some power from the Mind Stone for familiarity he would take down Doom/Balthazar while countering any Time manipulation/Reality warping powers with his own(just like against the Shadow King) should it arise.
Taken Out: Dr Doom, Balthazar Blake

Buffyverse vampires are described as simply not being there to telepathy, akin to their lack of appearance in a mirror, so I don't think just being more powerful would work. Especially bringing them to the astral plane, seeing as they lack souls.

Legion should be able to deal with Balthazar in a short fight, I can agree to that.

The Phoenix Queen
The dually amped Queen starts by using her highly amped telepathy to attack her enemies who unfortunately can't resist her moves starting with Absorbing Man. She quickly shuts down the Monster Man before he can any real damage(and forcing him to human form)then focuses on Livewire, and Savitar who are suddenly shackled and mind fragged by her dual TP/TK assault.

Then while they are out she uses her considerable TK powers to crush or atomize them taking the out the fight. The Hollow if it can't be destroyed is condensed to a baseball size mass with TK and trapped.
Taken Out: Absorbing Man, Livewire, Savitar

This however is a drastic mistake, because she just gave Absorbing Man her mutant telepathy. Charmedverse telepathy, astral projection and magic are in fact in-born, inheritable traits (this is the entire basis of the show so I assume I don't need to provide links?), fitting quite well with the notion of mutations in the X-Men's movies. If a power has a functionally identical source, it's silly to argue it counts as something else.

So the result of this is Absorbing Man getting massive telepathic powers.

The Omni-Titan
He starts by teleporting his team to or near the location of Doom and Balthazar then uses the Space Stone to phase their bodies. This makes their items/clothes drop to the ground(so Doom can't use the Infinity Gauntlet and Balthazar can't use his Time Stone or Vest) and halting any attacks and allows Thanos to take the 3 Stones and add them to his own Gauntlet.

Using the Reality Stone he turns Doom/Balthazar/Absorbing Man into chickens and teleports them in the middle of a pack of Dragons where they are eaten. Then he uses the Power Stone to blast away Livewire and Savitar, giving him the satisfaction of victory with the Stones once again.
Taken Out: Rulers of Infnity

Too slow, Doom is speed-amped by Savitar at the beginning of my strategy, so the result of this is Thanos being unmade by the Reality Stone since one of them is much faster and already working his powers in an AOE that Thanos teleports into.

(Also using the Reality Stone on Absorbing Man would be a very bad idea, but it doesn't get to that.)

The Ultra Adaptron
He starts his first field test of his upgraded abilities and simultaniously targets Livewire on offense and adjusts his sheilds for defense. With his Motherbox upgraded Borg sheilding he account's for giant Livewires boosted lightning and Kaiju Absorbing Man beam attacks and sheilds himself, Phoenix, and the Chosen from attacks.

Adjusting his offensive weapons to destabilize electricity through energy modulation and Trek science he uses sustained blasts from both hands to attack her until she reverts to human form and is weakened. Then he uses his Motherbox upgraded strength to knock her down, then converts his arm into a cannon and blasts her through the heart taking her out the fight.
Taken Out: Livewire

Whether you believe Ultron wins against Livewire or vice-versa, I have no issue with this match-up occurring; Ultron's technology-based powers were the only shot against Absorbing Man so the two of them can duke it out at leisure.

The Shaker of Stars
She targets Evil Speedster #3 and intercepts any blitz attempt as she speeds at him. Savitar being speed centralized has a step or two on Purity pure speed wise, but it's not to fast for her Kryptonian speed/vision to be able to track or tag him(as Supergirl keeps up with the Flash). Meanwhile her strength/durability dwarfs his and her array of powers helps her out in this fight. A she speeds near him she uses her Vertigo inducing vibration powers to suddenly throw Savitar off balance.

She then uses her TK to pick up Savitar off the ground into the air negating his speed powers and opens a portal with her sling ring to a place she had strong connection to, the Home Base of the World killers. She tosses him through and closes the portal trapping him and taking him out of the fight. She then boosts herself physically and flies around like a Missles taking out any enemies left.
Taken Out: Savitar

Savitar makes no attempt to blitz. While Purity would win a frontal fight against him, she can't make it to him in time to prevent the speed-amp, which is all I need for Doom and the now massively telepathic Absorbing Man to rock the enemy team.

Darth mistook his match-ups, he should have used Ultron to BFR Absorbing Man. As-is, nothing targeted at him can stop him (indeed exactly what I predicted happens), and nothing is going to stop Doom either, so the entire planet is unmade. Legion might defeat Balthazar, but he'll die along with his team to Doom's annihilation wave or Absorbing Man's power.

Also her powers and skills dwarf anything the Charmedverse have ever seen when it comes to pure Psionic abilities and AbsMan having no mental defenses at all can't help the Hollow in this fight.

This is incorrect by the way, The Avatars were able to brainwash the entire planet, and there are other instances of planetary-level magics in the show, and the Hollow was explicitly able to absorb the entirety of the magic in the Charmedverse so the level of telepathy involved here is well within its stated limits.

[KJS]

This is a good match. Like old times.

There hasn't been much discussion, however, so I am actually going to leave the polls until tomorrow (which will mean the matches have been up for a week, due to the slight delay we had).

[Darth Drizzle]

I have been on vacation since last week(hence rapid the posting in all matches before I left.) and have little to no service.

But I will be back tomorrow to answer questions here and in the other matches.

[Cleric of Hell’s Brigade]

This is tough. I don’t have questions per se so far, but I would note Savitar should be able to speed amp. He is a Barry from a future, and past Barry did the speed amp, so that should be a valid point.

[Siriel]

(Post the second.)

This is tough. I don’t have questions per se so far, but I would note Savitar should be able to speed amp. He is a Barry from a future, and past Barry did the speed amp, so that should be a valid point.

To elaborate on what Cleric means for those unfamiliar with The Flash; Savitar is a time clone of Barry, created to fight Savitar. His existence was a time loop and it's noted that he has all of Barry's memories, even getting them updated in real time when Barry experiences things he didn't in his timeline. Until the point where they split, he's identical to Barry.

While Savitar was fought in Season 3 of The Flash which occurred in 2017, he was created from Barry at a later point. He explicitly mentioned that he remembered fighting DeVoe, which is what occurs in Season 4 by which point Barry has learnt how to speed amp. Add his eons in the Speedforce and generally greater knowledge of alchemy, speed and power granting compared to Barry and saying that he can't speed amp wouldn't really add up.

[Darth Drizzle]

**On the Telepathy proof Vampires:
Their immunity is based on their mirror refections which isn't absolute and are more like surface thoughts. Jeans telepathy goes much more in-depth them surface thoughts as she has stopped both Cyclops and Nightcrawler from using their powers and straight out possessed Xavier fully so she goes way beyond surface thoughts.

The Chosens opening move would work on Vampires and Absorbing Man as their entire conciousness is teleported to the Astral Plane as seen here in this clip where he finally catches a creature made of out of purd fear in Division 3 headquarters. They were face to face in a normal room then instantly(next frame) they were in this red dimension created by David in the Astral Plane.

And yes, when you die on the Astral Plane your physical body dies as well. Tne Shadow King killed people doing this(Rudy who was a powerful Telekinetic) and so did David to this Fear Monster as they both were dead when they came back to the physical world. I have a couple more clips showing the Astral Plane if need be. Also Willow was able to talk to Vampires using telepathy and empathy so it's not absolute.

**On Absorbing Man/Charmed Telepathy:
It has been shown in almost all media that applies that a different universes powers work differently when in another universe. To add to that her Telepathy is literally based on the X-Gene from her universe and has nothing to do with Charmed_Verse powers. This would basically mean anyone with a Charmed Verse Magic blocking Amulet would somehow bounce every mutant Telepath casually, and I don't think that's the case. And the large mind wipe feats was definitely magic based more than outright psionic power based if it's legit.

Also Absorbing Man copied large amounts of energy that could clearly be seen, and Jean using Telepathy with surgical precision on him(giving the clip I posted showing her doing a half dozen high level things at once, including precision Telepathy use) won't give him the chance to Absorb anything as she had blocked people from using their powers as shown above before they even realize they can't use it.

**For Savitar Speeding up people:
I'll say again that this Flash episode is a complete outlier but it does show that speeding up people doesn't work out like you think. First Vibe tried to use his power but couldn't and after they found out that basically he can speed up your body but any energy discharged is dissapated by the speed/time difference. After that Killer Frost tries and fails as the same thing happens to her. Also it's highly out of character for Savitar to instantly help people and that be his only role as he is a powerful meglomaniac that takes orders from nobody.

**Match Recap:
So if we are going by Savitar speeding up random people who all think they are better and more important than he is and Balthazar/Doom doing their moves than they have 2 problems as 1. David keeps himself and Teammates moving in a Timestop and 2. Their attacks fizzle out and dissapate before they reach anyone.

The Chosen takes their minds to the Astral Plane as it has nothing to do with mind reading and has been done to much more powerful people(he does it to the Shadow King) and groups of people spread out(as in the episode recap).

Jean and her mutant Telepahy won't be absorbed by the Hollow and she takes him out, or Thanos does, or the Chosen does.

Purity TKs Savitar to another dimension on sight, and Ultron counters Livewire with his defense/offense adjustments.

[KJS]

One week has passed, discussion over.

Poll to be posted soon.