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  1. #1
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Default Rumblers League Week 1: KJS vs Moonknoight11

    Venue: Reign of Fire London

    - We can discuss the match for a week.
    - Each person participating in the match can post a maximum of eight times each in that time.
    - Remember to give people a chance to post links and arguments etc.
    - Poll threads posted next week.

    KJS v Moonknight11

  2. #2
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    THE COSMIC PROTECTION CORPS STRAT
    Vs Team Untitled

    Venue: Reign of Fire London

    PART 1

    SORCERER EXTRAORDINAIRE
    Doctor Strange teleports himself, Jean, Martian Manhunter and the Doctor 50 feet behind the opposition. Strange is adept at opening portals to anywhere he envisions and has proven capable of instant teleportation in the Sanctum, where he is presumably amped. Here, with the Elder Wand (which improves pre-existing magic) and the One Ring (which enhances any power possessed by its wielder), this should be an easy task, as he'll be similarly amped (if not more so).

    Immediately upon his arrival in the new location, he sends out a massive AoE dimension-dumping Mirror Dimension portal towards his opponents (at Yo-Yo's superspeed). Anyone who anticipated the teleport and charges our team will be dumped. Anyone who didn't will be dumped from behind (especially bearing in mind my other team member's opening moves, which we'll get to). Team Untitled have literally NO means of traversing dimensions. Major weakness.
    OUT: Potentially everyone via BFR (where "everyone" is written, it refers to T-Rex, Thor, Hela, Dalek Caan, the Genesis Ark, Professor X, Psi, Quicksilver and Vision).

    DOCTOR WAR LANTERN
    The Doctor - the one who had the willpower to spend 4.5 billion years punching through a mountain made of a material harder than diamond - now has a Green Lantern Ring. The Doctor. With a Green Lantern Ring. You're damn right he's going to be damn good with it immediately - but he'll keep things fairly simple to begin with, regardless.

    He creates two construct helmets that amplify Jean and J'onn's telepathy a thousand-fold, which will render any resistance from opposition telepaths completely insignificant.

    A more than capable multi-tasker, the Doctor will also be using the War Machine armour to fire on anyone who somehow approaches those who were teleported alongside him, and he'll shield his team-mates with construct shields from anything that may harm them.
    OUT: Nobody, but Jean and J'onn's telepathy has been amped, literally, a thousand-fold.

    BLACK PHOENIX
    Jean Grey is on mind shutdown duty (from behind the opposition, remember). She's the most powerful telepath in the fight by some distance, having easily overpowered Apocalypse (who, in turn, had previously easily overpowered the same Xavier she's up against in this very fight - while Psi isn't really in her league and Vision has displayed no resistance in spite of possessing the Mind Stone). Dark Willow's magic granted Willow mind-control over Vengeance Demons, who were supposed to be immune from such power, so Jean should get some additional telepathic oomph from that - she's essentially more powerful than ever before here. Oh and, of course, the Doctor is augmenting her powers MASSIVELY.

    From the opening bell, she will work on disrupting the every move of all opposing team members by shutting down their brains - doing her best, for example, to prevent Xavier from shrinking or to prevent Dalek Caan from opening the Genesis Ark (they're just examples). Essentially, she's trying to shut everyone's minds down and prevent them from focusing.
    OUT: Potentially everyone via mental shutdown.

    MARTIAN GOD OF THUNDER
    Martian Manhunter assists with telepathic shutdown (again, from behind them). And he'll be doing it at superspeed, making his the first mind attack to go off. Jean and J'onn utterly dwarf what Xavier and Psi have to offer telepathically at base level - but he's amped a thousand-fold by the Doctor anyway.

    But not only does he back Jean up in her attempts to telepathically shut down the opposition, he also stands on guard with Mjolnir, ready to throw it at anyone who approaches. If need be, he will throw it at speed, controlling it mid-flight to take out whichever opponents are near en masse.
    OUT: Potentially everyone via mental shutdown.

    JOHNNY MASK
    The only opposing member with any high-end superspeed is Quicksilver - and yes, he's undoubtedly very fast. However, Hancock is no slouch at his base level, and with the Mask boosting him with toon-style powers, he'll be even faster - perhaps as fast as he wants to be. Anyway, he runs interference on Quicksilver and punches him into Doctor Strange's portal. He's considerably stronger (obviously) than Quicksilver and the toon boost will ensure the punch has the oomph required to send him backwards into the portal, regardless of how far forward he'd progressed (he shouldn't really have got very far at all, given Martian Manhunter would've been in his head at super-speed).
    OUT: Quicksilver (KO'd or worse and smacked into Mirror Dimension).

  3. #3
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    IRON SPIDER-LANTERN
    Hal Jordan sends out a fleet of nine green construct jets - one for each opposing team member and one for the Genesis Ark. Each jet will have a trailing chain with a hook on the end that will latch on to the each opponent as they fly past. They will be flying with force that was proven strong enough to resist the gravitational pull of the sun - so this WILL work on giant Thor and giant T-Rex (especially given that their minds should be shut down) - and they will drag each opposing team member into the Mirror Dimension portal that is fast approaching behind them.
    OUT: Potentially everyone via BFR.

    Recap (TLDR): Strange, Jean, J'onn and the Doctor are behind the opposition via teleportation. A Mirror Dimension portal is now hurtling towards them from behind. The opposition have had their minds shut down by Jean and J'onn, who have both had their TP amped a thousand-fold by the Doctor's construct device. Hancock with the Mask has rushed Quicksilver and he will punch him into the portal if he approaches at superspeed. Hal has sent out a fleet of construct jets to drag the opposition into the portal.

    PART 2

    Obviously, this part only takes place if part one didn't succeed completely...

    SORCERER EXTRAORDINAIRE
    Once the lifeless, mentally shutdown opposing team members are in the portal, Strange closes it and leaves them in the Mirror Dimension. Any stragglers will be dealt with, however, and Strange himself will focus his attention on Hela, casting the Images of Ikonn to clone himself dozens of times, holding her in place with the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, then dumping her somewhere in the Multiverse using his Sling Ring.
    OUT: Hela.

    BLACK PHOENIX
    If either of the giants (Thor or T-Rex) are still around, Jean will use her massively amped mind-control powers to turn them both on their own team - with the primary focus being destroying the Genesis Ark (T-Rex) if it's still around and Vision (Thor) if he's still around. If not, they will simply smash the hell out of whoever else is left. Once they've done that, Jean will simply kill them with a massive telepathic assault on their brains.
    If neither of the giants were still around, she just kills them telepathically.
    OUT: Thor, T-Rex, Genesis Ark, Vision, anyone left.

    MARTIAN GOD OF THUNDER
    Like Jean, J'onn will use his massively amped mind-control powers on any survivors. He'll focus on keeping any potential threats docile and shut down, so that all other moves go off without a hitch. He'll find Xavier, even if he's tiny (via mental detection) and knock him out with Mjolnir.
    He'll avoid Thor and T-Rex if Jean successfully has them mind-controlled and attacking their own team.
    OUT: Everyone, Xavier especially.

    DOCTOR WAR LANTERN
    The Doctor puts green opaque energy bubbles around any survivors' heads and shackles around them, starving them of oxygen and blinding them. Those who need air will pass out quickly, but they'll all be greatly inhibited by the inability to see. Major focus on Dalek Caan and Psi here.
    He'll avoid Thor and T-Rex if Jean successfully has them mind-controlled and attacking their own team.
    OUT: Everyone, Dalek Caan and Psi in particular.

    JOHNNY MASK
    Focuses on Quicksilver, as he'd be pissed-off if he didn't defeat him in the first part. Uses his strength, vibranium shields, toon force etc to F him up quickly. Then he'll rip the Mind Stone out of Vision's head (Hancock strength + toon force). In general, whoever's left, Hancock will zoom around beating the crap out of them.
    OUT: Everyone, especially Quicksilver and Vision.

    IRON SPIDER-LANTERN
    He uses a GIANT construct fist to SMASH down on any survivors. Primary focus on Vision.
    OUT: Everyone, Vision especially.

    Recap (TLDR): Everyone still mentally shut down. Thor and T-Rex otherwise being controlled to smash the hell out of their own team. Hela dumped if she wasn't already. Quicksilver beaten to hell. Vision SMASHED and relieved of the Mind Stone. Genesis Ark destroyed. Caan and Psi encased in debilitating constructs. Xavier KO'd by Mjolnir.

    Contingencies and notes: Doctor Strange and the Doctor will always be on hand to bring anyone back from D-dumps (Strange using Sling Ring, Doctor using ring-generated inter-dimensional devices of his own creation). Everyone will defend themselves/each other to the best of their abilities. Venue largely irrelevant - dragons can't harm my team.
    Links will be provided in the discussion.

  4. #4
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Moonknight11 Stratagy

    OPERATION: TABLE-SETTING

    First up: Quicksilver

    Pietro is targeting the Black Phoenix. His fellow mutant needs to be dealt with and he'll do it so she's out of the fight immediately without getting hurt much. So he's speeding there at many times the speed of sound. No one on the opposing team can stop him, so he takes a dart from his gun by hand and sticks it on Jean. Her powers should be gone. With her magic and inhuman powers remaining, he taps her on the cheek. Just enough force to KO her and not kill her. Then he retreats to where my team is. His new mission, protecting the team but most importantly Psi.

    PSI

    She's Spidey fast, but her speed wont matter as much as her partner's. Her mission is repelling any telepathic attack, and more importantly her mission is to body the Martian Manhunter like she has before. Her Spider-Sense and speed keeps her from being tagged by a sneaky Doc Strange or whatever projectiles are sent her way. More on this later. We need to talk about the big guns.

    TYRANNO



    Rexy is now a Kaiju, and she towers over everyone. Dealing with her is gonna be rough for the opposing team and especially for whatever dragons decide to battle her for supremacy. She'll be the main creature attracting all the dragons I assume, and she'll enjoy squishing those tiny things. Or She'll try to chase Thor down. Not a good idea, but more power to her.

    THOR

    Now standing hundreds of feet tall, he will start marching forward where the opposing team will be. His thunder cloak will envelop him by his 5 or so step and his eyes will bring lightning. With a leap he should reach the enemy team. Crashing down, weighing thousands of tons he will smash his hammer on top of Hancock and the Green Lanterns whoever is closest, and just cause mayhem targeting whoever is nearby too. Lets hope his lightning cloak doesnt hit any other enemies nearby

    Hela and Vision

    Very similar to Thor, and if Thor is somehow immediately indisposed they will carry his mission. Hela and Vision will fly the few miles forward and locate enemy team members. I don't know who KJ will send after them, who will be near his starting zone by the time they get there. But Hela will toss swords at whoever she can. She doesnt care who she kills. Have her fight Hancock, and have them deal mortal wounds that they just regen from. Would be fun.

    THE FULCRUM


    Ultimately, these big guns don't matter much. They are distractions. Giant Distractions. *george lucas voice* Psi, Pietro, and Xavier are the KEY to all of this.

    Xavier

    He shrinks, and lands on Psi's shoulder. This is where he will remain. Meanwhile he will target the opposing team psychically. If Martian Manhunter battles him, Psi will immediately notice and just wreck the manhunter again. If not, Xavier can go his merry way and just body the entire enemy team psychically. He can freeze them, make them sleep, whatever. Strange, Hal, non-Mutant Jean (if still awake), even the Doctor (who does have some telepathic power), and Hancock (the mask has no feats against telepathy iirc) will all succumb.

    Quicksilver II

    His first mission should have been a smashing success. Now, he plays taxi. He will wait for Xavier to be on Psi's shoulder then ferry the girl forward (while steering clear of Thor) to the general area where the opposing team should be, some should be invisible (Strange, the Manhunter I assume), and some should be flying maybe. Phoenix should be out, but if not she has no mutant powers. No telepathy to contest my psychic duo. His job is to let the two do their thing, and protect from threats. Whats this, a portal is opening slowly before Psi and Quicksilver? (you can tell when mcu sorcerer portals open by the shiny ring shape they make) no problem. Pietro moves a couple of dozen feet before the portal can even work. Mjolnir is heading there at top speed to bash PSI? Move again. Its tempting to have him shield bash a few people but i want him concentrated on one task. saving Psi, and her tiny hanger on.

    PSI II

    Pietro is carrying her to the general area where the enemies are. In less than an eyeblink she'll be there and detect every mind there, much how she detected a supergirl sneaking up on her and a manhunter miles away trying to help his kryptonian friend. Once she detects all of these people she shuts them down thru her fear based telepathy. She took out the Martian Manhunter (an accomplished telepath) with zero effort. So much like with Xavier, this spells the end for: Hal, Strange, Phoenix, The Doctor, Hancock, Martian Manhunter.

    Both Psi and Xavier are targeting these people, and no one can stop them. Manhunter may be able to fight the Professor and win a psychic battle, but Psi owns him.

  5. #5
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Moonknight11 Pt2

    Notes/Contingencies:

    There aren't many. Either the fulcrum works or doesnt.

    - Vision will be sent to battle the magic of Phoenix (if she's awake or at full power). His blade should negate a bit of it maybe, and her vibration powers should have little effect on a guy made of Vibranium. He also has a robot brain so her telepathy will do little. This is his primary goal if a quicksilver tap can't knock her out.

    - If quicksilver can't accomplish his mutant curing goal, then he will of course slip into mission two of protecting the psychics.

    - If he is taken out and can't protect the psychics, then the psychics mission continues except with Psi swinging around and being totally dependent on her spidey sense. She just got her powers so they wont be very effective. I hope her enemies come to her.

    - Psi may have a range issue feat wise, so if Quicksilver is done, Xavier's job is to link with enemy team members further away. Once linked with him, Psi can defeat them from afar, much how she defeated the Manhunter linked to Supergirl.

    - Thor, Hela and Tyranno are unstoppable to every enemy except Phoenix and the Martian Manhunter. SHould they go, they'll win. Hancock cannot beat them, much less the green lanterns.

    - Quicksilver will be near the telepaths. any telepathic attack on him will be defended by Xavier and Psi.

    - If something troubles Xavier in his small size, then he will return to his normal size.


    DALEKS

    Not very crucial, but Dalek Caan will slap a time hand on the genesis ark and unleash a bunch of daleks. Minor really, but they will fuck shit up i guess. At the very least they'll probably swarm the doctor. The floating ark will also provide a distraction even if immediately destroyed.
    Last edited by Darth Drizzle; 05-21-2019 at 12:04 PM.

  6. #6
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Well...

    My two main moves are the teleport and the massive telepathic attack - followed closely by the dump and mass telepathic murder - and I don't feel either of them are remotely anticipated or dealt with.

    I'd like to justify the teleport somewhat.

    Since he was an absolute novice, Strange has proven capable of envisioning a place he wanted to be, then using magic to get there - he travelled from the top of Mount Everest to Kamar-Taj, which is significantly more than the distance required here.

    Then, in the Sanctum in Thor: Ragnarok, when he was (presumably) amped, he casually teleported himself and Thor around a dozen or so times without needing so much as a gesture.

    Then, in Avengers: Endgame, he proved capable of transporting HUNDREDS of individuals from throughout the universe to the Battle of Earth, all at the same time.

    So, given his proven ability to travel further distances, his proven ability to teleport himself and others when (presumably) amped, and his ability to handle the long-distance travel of HUNDREDS of characters from around the universe, this should be easy.

    He's massively amped with two items that... well... massively amp sorcerers. Teleporting should now not be an issue. And transporting himself and three others a couple of miles should go off without a hitch.

    With that in mind, himself, Jean, the Doctor and Martian Manhunter undoubtedly end up behind the opposition (especially given that Hancock stops Quicksilver in his tracks - and Quickilver's mind SHOULD instantly be controlled by Martian Manhunter before any opposition telepaths can process a thought).

    The Doctor's telepathic amping (which happens with a mere thought) and the subsequent utter telepathic domination of the opponents should easily take place within a second or so (they're all thought-based actions).

    At that point, the clean-up really should be quite easy.

    Strange's portal dumps the mentally paralysed opposition (like his portal dumped Loki in that aforementioned linked scene from Thor: Ragnarok), with a little help from Hal dragging them in with construct planes that can resist the pull of the sun. The telepathic attack should turn to mass murder if need be, and the rest of the strategy should go off without a hitch.
    Last edited by KJS; 05-21-2019 at 01:44 PM. Reason: Typo: Wrote "result" instead of "resist"...

  7. #7
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    I don't think you can credit strange with all the teleportations from the Endgame scene, since there were plenty of Wizards at the battle

    As for the rest of the fight: Based on their respective strategies, Quicksilver is unlikely to accomplish his initial mission. He'll be speeding away from the bell, and it be willing to wager that he'll be out of Eyesight when the other team ports in behind his team

  8. #8
    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    I have two major problems with the opposing strategy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    [B][COLOR="#0000FF"]

    SORCERER EXTRAORDINAIRE
    Doctor Strange teleports himself, Jean, Martian Manhunter and the Doctor 50 feet behind the opposition. Strange is adept at opening portals to anywhere he envisions and has proven capable of instant teleportation in the Sanctum, where he is presumably amped. Here, with the Elder Wand (which improves pre-existing magic) and the One Ring (which enhances any power possessed by its wielder), this should be an easy task, as he'll be similarly amped (if not more so).

    Immediately upon his arrival in the new location, he sends out a massive AoE dimension-dumping Mirror Dimension portal towards his opponents (at Yo-Yo's superspeed). Anyone who anticipated the teleport and charges our team will be dumped. Anyone who didn't will be dumped from behind (especially bearing in mind my other team member's opening moves, which we'll get to). Team Untitled have literally NO means of traversing dimensions. Major weakness.
    OUT: Potentially everyone via BFR (where "everyone" is written, it refers to T-Rex, Thor, Hela, Dalek Caan, the Genesis Ark, Professor X, Psi, Quicksilver and Vision).
    Things done in the sanctum santorum don't really translate to things done outside. Instantly teleporting people may work inside but thats just a function of the Santorum, but outside Strange busts out sling rings always, every time. Generating the portals then going through them takes time, time that the opposing team doesn't really have as the massively hypermach Quicksilver is rushing in at speeds where he can search a mansion before its consumed by an explosion, so Phoenix's telepathy will be off the table immediately as she will be knocked out and without mutant powers. Quicksilver will also definetly be back in the time it takes his mirror dimension aoe to cover 50 feet. We saw how fast that thing was in infinity war and its no bullet.

    Psi's powers will also come into effect. Her spider-sense will warn her that her enemies are behind her, and they will be attacked before Strange even forms his AOE mirror dimension portal. They're all going down.

    How big a boost are you claiming for Strange here? His best targeted mirror dimension portal is like 20 feet across in infinity war, and now he's busting out a portal that's supposed to fit two kaiju sized enemies? we're talking a 10x boost? probably larger tbh. neither the elder wand nor the ring have boosted anything close to this. arguing a 2x boost would be hard to begin with since there's no concrete examples of either item giving a boost like that.


    DOCTOR WAR LANTERN
    The Doctor - the one who had the willpower to spend 4.5 billion years punching through a mountain made of a material harder than diamond - now has a Green Lantern Ring. The Doctor. With a Green Lantern Ring. You're damn right he's going to be damn good with it immediately - but he'll keep things fairly simple to begin with, regardless.

    He creates two construct helmets that amplify Jean and J'onn's telepathy a thousand-fold, which will render any resistance from opposition telepaths completely insignificant.

    A more than capable multi-tasker, the Doctor will also be using the War Machine armour to fire on anyone who somehow approaches those who were teleported alongside him, and he'll shield his team-mates with construct shields from anything that may harm them.
    OUT: Nobody, but Jean and J'onn's telepathy has been amped, literally, a thousand-fold.
    How? How does he do this? When has he run into tech that amplify telepathy like that? Does he have cerebro? Hal creates things he understands and that exist. Planes, guns, hot wheels tracks. Other experienced GLs create rocks, and even the pull of a sun. This kind of move would be more understandable from the comic GL ring imo. A newbie creating a machine more complex than anything made in the movies seems a bit much. Not that it matters since he'll be midway through making it and fully in Psi's range of attack assuming the teleport move works. He's toast.

    I have quibbles with other stuff but they're very minor. There's zero chance Phoenix doesn't go down as Pietro is the fastest guy here by an order of magnitude (as he's at least in the hundreds of mach). Martian Manhunter is allegedly the first mind attack going off but that superspeed he has (whats his best feat incidentally? his fight against supergirl showed him being incredibly slow) didn't keep him from getting annihilated by Psi in telepathic combat. This will be a repeat of that supergirl episode.

    Ultimately, Pietro will go unimpeded, and my psychics will be protected. They're the lynchpin and they can't be dealt with, even with the Manhunter's undemonstrated super speed telepathy. Hancock is not fast enough to keep up, nor is Strange, nor is J'onn. The enemy has brought their team to Psi and Psi will run wild.

  9. #9
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jcogginsa View Post
    I don't think you can credit strange with all the teleportations from the Endgame scene, since there were plenty of Wizards at the battle
    Not all (I didn't actually say he was responsible for them all, to be fair), but he was definitely responsible for the transportation of at least ONE of the armies, across bigger distances than this. The point was that he can traverse big distances, orchestrating the transportation of much bigger groups of people, prior to being amped.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    Things done in the sanctum santorum don't really translate to things done outside. Instantly teleporting people may work inside but thats just a function of the Santorum, but outside Strange busts out sling rings always, every time.
    We really arguing one of the simplest spells in fiction? It's only "just a function" of the Sanctorum because it aids your argument - that's literally never been a thing.

    Like any Marvel sorcerer (Dormammu in the Dark Dimension, Mephisto in Hell etc), it's generally accepted that Strange is magically "amped" in the Sanctum - not that "he can only EVER do the things he does there while he's there".

    Here, he's amped two-fold - once by a wand that improves existing spells (which, using common sense, would suggest that transportation via portals could be upgraded to teleportation) and once by an item that enhances any powers its wielder possesses (again, on top of the wand especially, this should upgrade portal generation to teleportation).

    All of this makes even more sense when you consider that, in an amped environment, Strange has already demonstrated the ability to teleport.

    Nothing shown in the Sanctum suggests Strange is amped as much as someone wielding either the Elder Wand or One Ring, let alone both of them.

    Moreover, basic wands in Harry Potter allow their wielders to "apparate", which IS teleportation. The Elder Wand is far more powerful than any other wand in the Potterverse. And, in turn, IT is amped by the One Ring.

    Strange now has the Elder Wand, the One Ring, a Sling Ring enhanced by both of those items, and experience of teleporting. Literally anything shown on screen before is massively amped.

    Any other questions re: that?

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    Quicksilver is rushing in at speeds where he can search a mansion before its consumed by an explosion, so Phoenix's telepathy will be off the table immediately as she will be knocked out and without mutant powers. Quicksilver will also definetly be back in the time it takes his mirror dimension aoe to cover 50 feet. We saw how fast that thing was in infinity war and its no bullet.
    Quicksilver is in a city he doesn't know, 3 miles away from the enemy, with a city's worth of buildings in front of him. Ergo, even the shortest route will be more than 3 miles, and that's assuming he goes the exact right way immediately. We're probably talking 5 miles plus, all things considered. He isn't travelling that far before a thought is processed - especially not when the fastest telepath in the fight makes the first move to shut opposing brains down.

    Moreover, Hancock has the speed to get to the moon, with like 30 million gallons of paint, and paint a heart the size of the continental United States before anyone noticed. And, here, he's enhanced by arguably the most ridiculously powerful item in the league. He'll stop Quicksilver while making humour of the situation. As will the telepathic assault.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    Psi's powers will also come into effect. Her spider-sense will warn her that her enemies are behind her, and they will be attacked before Strange even forms his AOE mirror dimension portal. They're all going down.
    Psi undoubtedly has a Spider-Sense, but:

    a) Her mind assault is insignificant when we have Jean on our team. Jean could very easily defeat both of the psychics on your team at base level. Here, she has back-up AND is amped massively.
    b) The first mind assault in the fight is executed by the far faster Martian Manhunter.
    c) She doesn't have the means to hurt the vast majority of my team anyway - mentally she's completely outdone, physically she's comparatively weak.
    d) The Doctor's thought-speed telepathic enhancement of Jean and MM happens before she can do a thing, bearing in mind there's a two-fold telepathic assault occurring on my side, by a quicker telepath and a far more powerful telepath. At that point, she's completely mentally dominated (as if she wasn't already).

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    How big a boost are you claiming for Strange here? His best targeted mirror dimension portal is like 20 feet across in infinity war, and now he's busting out a portal that's supposed to fit two kaiju sized enemies? we're talking a 10x boost? probably larger tbh. neither the elder wand nor the ring have boosted anything close to this. arguing a 2x boost would be hard to begin with since there's no concrete examples of either item giving a boost like that.
    The Ancient One has literally changed the entire environment with Mirror Dimension manipulation. An entire city simply became the Mirror Dimension a moment after she created her portal. Strange is amped way, way beyond her here.

    And there's plenty of other moves taking them out. Not least the telepathy that they have no defence against.

    I reiterate that the telepathy on my team is both quicker AND more powerful than yours at base level. Here, it is amped a thousand fold.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    How? How does he do this? When has he run into tech that amplify telepathy like that? Does he have cerebro? Hal creates things he understands and that exist. Planes, guns, hot wheels tracks. Other experienced GLs create rocks, and even the pull of a sun. This kind of move would be more understandable from the comic GL ring imo. A newbie creating a machine more complex than anything made in the movies seems a bit much. Not that it matters since he'll be midway through making it and fully in Psi's range of attack assuming the teleport move works. He's toast.
    This isn't Hal, this is the Doctor. The Doctor being someone who's an expert in technology from thousands of years in the future.

    The Doctor understands things instantly on hundreds of occasions - even when he hasn't previously encountered them. It's, quite literally, what he's known for. He's also used components of Earth-based technology to amplify signals on countless occasions. This isn't Earth-based technology - it's a Green Lantern Ring. However, more importantly...

    The fact is the Doctor literally has telepathy. He used it (the actual Twelfth Doctor who's on my team) to communicate with Rusty in the TV episode "Into the Dalek".

    He'll also have memories of things like the Coronet of Rassilon, which enabled domination over the will of others, and the MITRE Headset, which Munch is using in this very league - an item that specifically amped psychic powers.

    His TARDIS also has telepathic circuits. He's very, very, very familiar with the general concept of telepathy and how it works, in many different forms.

    All he's doing here is creating a device to amplify a signal. The number of times signals have been created, sent, detected, blocked and amplified by the Doctor over the years is impossible to count. This is possibly the most basic move you'll see from any character with an IQ in triple figures in week one.
    Last edited by KJS; 05-22-2019 at 04:40 AM.

  10. #10
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    I don't think Quicksilver or any League Speedster can cover 3 miles before a Telepath can think.

    I also don't think the movie GL ring can create biological enhancers/boosters like it does in the comics or here in this fight. Its almost exclusively limited to basic energy constructs in the movie even from the most experienced users. Can the Doctor make a Green War Machine Construct that shoots green missles and bullets sure. Can he create a armor that gives the user Transmutation or boosts innate Telekinesis through gene/dna enhancing I think that's to far.

    It would be like John Stewart overloading his GL Ring with to much Willpower as what the Doctor is asking to do is to much for the movie ring and the feats it's shown to be capable of doing.
    Last edited by Darth Drizzle; 05-22-2019 at 11:47 AM.

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    Couple things

    1. I think that movie Hal created a flamethrowerr, which indicates some level of chemical construct

    2. I'm not sure it's confirmed in the films that the sanctum amps sorcerors

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    I'm now going to have to use a post up to respond to a misinterpretation, which isn't great, but oh well. I don't want anyone else getting the wrong end of the stick due to the misinterpretation in question, so I'll nip it in the bud...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle View Post
    I also don't think the movie GL ring can create biological enhancers/boosters like it does in the comics or here in this fight. Its almost exclusively limited to basic energy constructs in the movie even from the most experienced users. Can the Doctor make a Green War Machine Construct that shoots green missles and bullets sure. Can he create a armor that gives the user Transmutation or boosts innate Telekinesis through gene/dna enhancing I think that's to far.

    It would be like John Stewart overloading his GL Ring with to much Willpower as what the Doctor is asking to do is to much for the movie ring and the feats it's shown to be capable of doing.
    This isn't what's happening.

    He's creating two helmets that amplify telepathic signals. Think a less complex, smaller, less dangerous version of Cerebro from the X-Men stories. Or, more pertinently, given that it's the Doctor, think the MITRE headset from the Whoniverse - a device the Doctor is familiar with, which I've already referenced in my responses and which amplifies psionic waves.

    The wording of the strategy is "he creates two construct helmets that amplify Jean and J'onn's telepathy". It's not altering their DNA, it's amplifying the power they are sending out.

    Neither of the opposing telepaths can touch Jean anyway, because she's FAR more powerful than both of them combined at her base level, but when the power she sends out is amplified a thousand fold - courtesy of a device that the Doctor could conjure with consummate ease - those opposition telepaths and their allies really are in for a world of hurt. Especially with Martian Manhunter backing her up, also amped.

    The Doctor has amplified signals (to the extent that they reach space) on countless occasions over the years, using the components he's found in things like iPhones and television sets. Here, he can create the parts from scratch, using his own imagination, using an item far more advanced than the Earth-based devices he's managed to use to amplify signals before.

    And just for the record, Tomar-Re does literally say "the ring's limits are only what you can imagine". This is the Doctor we're talking about, so even IF I was using a device you deemed "too complicated", a bit of leeway should surely be given, as he's FAR more creative than anyone seen in the Green Lantern movie.

    But, just to reinforce what Jcogginsa has just said, Hal did indeed create a flamethrower, as well as a pool of water, a minigun that created the kind of fire effect that could only be created if the construct had a chemical composition, and a targeting system on a giant gun that also created a fire effect.

    There is DEFINITELY more to the movie Green Lantern ring that just solid parts. It can create complex components that mimic different elements.
    Last edited by KJS; 05-23-2019 at 12:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    Not all (I didn't actually say he was responsible for them all, to be fair), but he was definitely responsible for the transportation of at least ONE of the armies, across bigger distances than this. The point was that he can traverse big distances, orchestrating the transportation of much bigger groups of people, prior to being amped.
    I agree he can do it, he just needs his sling ring for it. All those people had to walk through a portal after all.


    -snip for character limit -

    Here, he's amped two-fold - once by a wand that improves existing spells (which, using common sense, would suggest that transportation via portals could be upgraded to teleportation) and once by an item that enhances any powers its wielder possesses (again, on top of the wand especially, this should upgrade portal generation to teleportation).

    All of this makes even more sense when you consider that, in an amped environment, Strange has already demonstrated the ability to teleport.

    Nothing shown in the Sanctum suggests Strange is amped as much as someone wielding either the Elder Wand or One Ring, let alone both of them.

    Moreover, basic wands in Harry Potter allow their wielders to "apparate", which IS teleportation. The Elder Wand is far more powerful than any other wand in the Potterverse. And, in turn, IT is amped by the One Ring.

    Strange now has the Elder Wand, the One Ring, a Sling Ring enhanced by both of those items, and experience of teleporting. Literally anything shown on screen before is massively amped.

    Any other questions re: that?
    Amping in degree does not translate to amping in kind. The Spider-Bite amping my Psi in all ways physically does not translate into amping her telepathy, i'd be ridiculous to make such a claim. Being amped to an unknown (and not shown or proven whatsover) degree by a wand and the one ring does not mean Strange can suddenly do anything he wants ever.

    The Sanctum Sanctorum is clearly a special place filled with far more magical artifacts than just the two Strange is carrying ITT. In it he shows feats and powers he never does outside. He generates unending beer for his pal (matter generation?), and instant teleportation within the sanctum. This instant teleportation only ever happens in the sanctum. If it were really independent of the building and just an amp then why does Strange need a sling ring portal to teleport Loki who was miles away? why does he need a sling ring to send Thor and Loki to iceland?

    Even if youre right, this amp translates to instant teleportation within a big house. How are they getting near my team exactly? you need all these arbitrary assumptions to be proven right just to get instant teleportation and even if you get it, he has no range for it. He needs portals to go anywhere beyond the house. So he'll end up using a portal to get to my team, and as soon as the portal opens, your team is in range of Psi.



    Quicksilver is in a city he doesn't know, 3 miles away from the enemy, with a city's worth of buildings in front of him. Ergo, even the shortest route will be more than 3 miles, and that's assuming he goes the exact right way immediately. We're probably talking 5 miles plus, all things considered. He isn't travelling that far before a thought is processed - especially not when the fastest telepath in the fight makes the first move to shut opposing brains down.

    Moreover, Hancock has the speed to get to the moon, with like 30 million gallons of paint, and paint a heart the size of the continental United States before anyone noticed. And, here, he's enhanced by arguably the most ridiculously powerful item in the league. He'll stop Quicksilver while making humour of the situation. As will the telepathic assault.
    The team is directly ahead, its not like our teams appear randomly in a general area. Even conservative figures of Pietros speed put him in the mach 100s. A lowball at Mach 100 means he's traveling at 33,130 m/s. 33 km/s. If i do you a solid and accept your 5 KM, he'll be covering it in .15 s. And thats just his base time slow mode. His superspeed in time slow mode shortens those fractions of a second even more. Jean can't shut any brains down when she's down cold, and no Strange portal can act fast enough to save her. As for Hancock. His offscreen feats can't really be counted on much, not when we have onscreen evidence putting him at blur speed before he was ever weakened. We dont know how he pulled off that shit. But if you wanna claim Hancock is post crisis Superman speed tier then we'll leave it to the voters.

    Psi undoubtedly has a Spider-Sense, but:

    a) Her mind assault is insignificant when we have Jean on our team. Jean could very easily defeat both of the psychics on your team at base level. Here, she has back-up AND is amped massively.
    b) The first mind assault in the fight is executed by the far faster Martian Manhunter.
    c) She doesn't have the means to hurt the vast majority of my team anyway - mentally she's completely outdone, physically she's comparatively weak.
    d) The Doctor's thought-speed telepathic enhancement of Jean and MM happens before she can do a thing, bearing in mind there's a two-fold telepathic assault occurring on my side, by a quicker telepath and a far more powerful telepath. At that point, she's completely mentally dominated (as if she wasn't already).
    There's no impressive superspeed coming from Martian Manhunter in that video. They're not going bullet fast or anything.

    Earlier in that vid Martian Manhunter moves at top speed to save someones life and he's only moving a lil faster than the old ladies and normal people in the background. His telepathy will be easily fended off, and he'll get owned again. Just like in Supergirl.



    The Ancient One has literally changed the entire environment with Mirror Dimension manipulation. An entire city simply became the Mirror Dimension a moment after she created her portal. Strange is amped way, way beyond her here.

    I reiterate that the telepathy on my team is both quicker AND more powerful than yours at base level. Here, it is amped a thousand fold.
    The Ancient one is not in this fight, Strange is, and even then she changed the environment for like twelve people. She didnt exactly shift the city to anyone else living in it. 12 humans =/= a 70 meter tall man or a 100 meter tall dinosaur.

    Your telepathy is not quicker as Manhunter has no speed feats of note. Manhunter in slow mo moves on par with human bystanders, Quicksilver in slow mo searches a mansion while an explosion moves in slow mo. No comparison there, even Raimi Spider-Man has better slow mo feats.



    This isn't Hal, this is the Doctor. The Doctor being someone who's an expert in technology from thousands of years in the future.

    The Doctor understands things instantly on hundreds of occasions - even when he hasn't previously encountered them. It's, quite literally, what he's known for. He's also used components of Earth-based technology to amplify signals on countless occasions. This isn't Earth-based technology - it's a Green Lantern Ring. However, more importantly...

    The fact is the Doctor literally has telepathy. He used it (the actual Twelfth Doctor who's on my team) to communicate with Rusty in the TV episode "Into the Dalek".

    He'll also have memories of things like the Coronet of Rassilon, which enabled domination over the will of others, and the MITRE Headset, which Munch is using in this very league - an item that specifically amped psychic powers.

    His TARDIS also has telepathic circuits. He's very, very, very familiar with the general concept of telepathy and how it works, in many different forms.

    All he's doing here is creating a device to amplify a signal. The number of times signals have been created, sent, detected, blocked and amplified by the Doctor over the years is impossible to count. This is possibly the most basic move you'll see from any character with an IQ in triple figures in week one.
    Amplifying a signal he never has before is one thing, but i could see him rigging up a Mitre headset, tho that amplifies TK not TP. Him arbitrarily instantly making a device that makes their telepathy 1000 times stronger is another thing. Especially when the Coronet of Rassilon, a device made by a peer of the Doctor was apparently overpowered by the mental might of three doctors. Young Xavier would laugh at the telepathy of three combined doctors let alone PSI, and The Doctor is supposed to make a device hundreds of times more powerful than Rassilon's just like that?

    Anyway even if it works, he's gonna be in range of Psi before he pulls it off thanks to Strange portaling him in range. Making a portal, really helps me more than helps you.

    Psi's weakness is lack of range, but you're giving her a portal to blast her Manhunter-bodying telepathy through. The Doctor won't even be able to aim his ring at his pals before he's wrecked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    I agree he can do it, he just needs his sling ring for it. All those people had to walk through a portal after all.

    Amping in degree does not translate to amping in kind. The Spider-Bite amping my Psi in all ways physically does not translate into amping her telepathy, i'd be ridiculous to make such a claim. Being amped to an unknown (and not shown or proven whatsover) degree by a wand and the one ring does not mean Strange can suddenly do anything he wants ever.

    The Sanctum Sanctorum is clearly a special place filled with far more magical artifacts than just the two Strange is carrying ITT. In it he shows feats and powers he never does outside. He generates unending beer for his pal (matter generation?), and instant teleportation within the sanctum. This instant teleportation only ever happens in the sanctum. If it were really independent of the building and just an amp then why does Strange need a sling ring portal to teleport Loki who was miles away? why does he need a sling ring to send Thor and Loki to iceland?
    So you're suggesting that the amping in the Sanctum comes from merely "being near" a bunch of magical artefacts with no feats for amping?

    Yet when Strange is literally CARRYING two that are specifically known for amping, he won't be able to do those things? Makes no sense whatsoever.

    Moreover, given that the Ancient One, Kaecilius, Mordo and Kaecilius' zealots have all displayed mystical feats both inside and outside the Sanctum in the MCU, please show another example of a sorcerer being amped in there. Just one.

    There is literally no proof. It's just an assumption. And even IF it was the case, there is nothing suggesting Strange would be more powerful in there than he is in this fight, in a scenario where he's wielding two items that undeniably amp magic.

    And, can I just reiterate the part you've ignored about the Elder Wand? The Elder Wand literally has the ability to teleport. It's now in the hands of a sorcerer who is proven to be able to teleport instantly when that's an option, and he's further amped by the One Ring here.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    Even if youre right, this amp translates to instant teleportation within a big house. How are they getting near my team exactly? you need all these arbitrary assumptions to be proven right just to get instant teleportation and even if you get it, he has no range for it. He needs portals to go anywhere beyond the house. So he'll end up using a portal to get to my team, and as soon as the portal opens, your team is in range of Psi.
    And Psi remains irrelevant in comparison to Jean alone. Let alone Jean, J'onn and a massive telepathic amping.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    The team is directly ahead, its not like our teams appear randomly in a general area. Even conservative figures of Pietros speed put him in the mach 100s. A lowball at Mach 100 means he's traveling at 33,130 m/s. 33 km/s. If i do you a solid and accept your 5 KM, he'll be covering it in .15 s. And thats just his base time slow mode. His superspeed in time slow mode shortens those fractions of a second even more. Jean can't shut any brains down when she's down cold, and no Strange portal can act fast enough to save her. As for Hancock. His offscreen feats can't really be counted on much, not when we have onscreen evidence putting him at blur speed before he was ever weakened. We dont know how he pulled off that shit. But if you wanna claim Hancock is post crisis Superman speed tier then we'll leave it to the voters.
    The very idea of this league was to prevent blitzing.

    I redirect you to the very proposal of this league and its speed-based ideas.

    The idea was to make speed less important. Decrease the speed levels, increase the distances between teams, so that "OMG speedblitz" was no longer a viable option.

    Ergo, it is no longer a viable option, because the distance is too great and nobody participating in this league is fast enough to bypass the distance before opponents think. Nobody.

    And yet, in week one, your opening gambit claims to ruin my team's chances with an "OMG speedblitz". Not only is it not happening, it's in very bad taste.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    There's no impressive superspeed coming from Martian Manhunter in that video. They're not going bullet fast or anything.

    Earlier in that vid Martian Manhunter moves at top speed to save someones life and he's only moving a lil faster than the old ladies and normal people in the background. His telepathy will be easily fended off, and he'll get owned again. Just like in Supergirl.

    Your telepathy is not quicker as Manhunter has no speed feats of note. Manhunter in slow mo moves on par with human bystanders, Quicksilver in slow mo searches a mansion while an explosion moves in slow mo. No comparison there, even Raimi Spider-Man has better slow mo feats.
    I simply didn't look very hard for speed feats - because, as I've just said, there's less focus on speed in this league. But if you insist...

    What about this?

    But, again, Hancock is quick as hell to begin with, let alone when he has a toonforce-style amping. The Mask is an item that, feasibly, could just allow him to ignore a damn timestop - just "because". But I haven't used it to that degree. All I've done is made the suggestion that it would allow an already super-fast individual to prevent another super-fast individual from crossing a distance longer than 3 miles before his teammates process a thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by moonknight11 View Post
    Amplifying a signal he never has before is one thing, but i could see him rigging up a Mitre headset, tho that amplifies TK not TP. Him arbitrarily instantly making a device that makes their telepathy 1000 times stronger is another thing. Especially when the Coronet of Rassilon, a device made by a peer of the Doctor was apparently overpowered by the mental might of three doctors. Young Xavier would laugh at the telepathy of three combined doctors let alone PSI, and The Doctor is supposed to make a device hundreds of times more powerful than Rassilon's just like that?

    Anyway even if it works, he's gonna be in range of Psi before he pulls it off thanks to Strange portaling him in range. Making a portal, really helps me more than helps you.

    Psi's weakness is lack of range, but you're giving her a portal to blast her Manhunter-bodying telepathy through. The Doctor won't even be able to aim his ring at his pals before he's wrecked.
    Again, Psi... Psi is literally irrelevant in comparison to Jean alone, let alone Jean + J'onn with amping.

    Regarding the amping, are you actually serious?

    This is the Doctor. Have you ever seen the Doctor struggle with anything as basic as this? It's not about how powerful the Doctor's telepathy is (that was literally never part of my argument), it's about the fact that telepathy is a basic concept that he understands, and it involves the transmission of brainwaves.

    Can you honestly see the Doctor being presented as saying "I've got a Green Lantern ring that can create ANYTHING, and I want to amplify some psionic energy.... oh no, I'm totally stuck for ideas!!!"

    This would be easy for him. So, so, so, so easy. He's amplifying a signal. Something he's done countless times using Earth technology. Here, he gets to create the technology from scratch.
    Last edited by KJS; 05-27-2019 at 03:00 AM.

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    Mighty Member moonknight11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    So you're suggesting that the amping in the Sanctum comes from merely "being near" a bunch of magical artefacts with no feats for amping?

    Yet when Strange is literally CARRYING two that are specifically known for amping, he won't be able to do those things? Makes no sense whatsoever.

    Moreover, given that the Ancient One, Kaecilius, Mordo and Kaecilius' zealots have all displayed mystical feats both inside and outside the Sanctum in the MCU, please show another example of a sorcerer being amped in there. Just one.

    There is literally no proof. It's just an assumption. And even IF it was the case, there is nothing suggesting Strange would be more powerful in there than he is in this fight, in a scenario where he's wielding two items that undeniably amp magic.

    And, can I just reiterate the part you've ignored about the Elder Wand? The Elder Wand literally has the ability to teleport. It's now in the hands of a sorcerer who is proven to be able to teleport instantly when that's an option, and he's further amped by the One Ring here.
    Prove it. All of it. Amping as a word does not mean your Strange is omnipotent. Prove how amped he is. Prove the ring and the wand can amp him 2x. Prove they can amp him 5x. Provide evidence. You have provided zero proof dealing with Strange. You can bring up the ancient one, but she is not Strange.

    You have no explanation why Loki was sling ringed and not instantly teleported. Or why thor was sling ring portaled and not teleported. At best you've proven strange can instantly teleport within a house while amped. I'll grant you that he has two amps so he can instantly teleport as far as two houses now. Hell ill grant you that he's 5x amped so he can teleport as far as five mansions. still, he's gonna need a portal. Just like in endgame.

    As for the Elder Wand. What? I do not remember it teleporting onscreen. Apparation is tied to the wizards not the wand. Not that any of its masters ever apparated with it anyway.

    And Psi remains irrelevant in comparison to Jean alone. Let alone Jean, J'onn and a massive telepathic amping.

    The very idea of this league was to prevent blitzing.

    I redirect you to the very proposal of this league and its speed-based ideas.

    The idea was to make speed less important. Decrease the speed levels, increase the distances between teams, so that "OMG speedblitz" was no longer a viable option.

    Ergo, it is no longer a viable option, because the distance is too great and nobody participating in this league is fast enough to bypass the distance before opponents think. Nobody.

    And yet, in week one, your opening gambit claims to ruin my team's chances with an "OMG speedblitz". Not only is it not happening, it's in very bad taste.
    If your goal is ending the speedblitz then why allow speedsters at all? if your goal is to rob all speedsters of their main asset then why make the distance so small? the initial goal may have been to end these characters usefulness but yet they're here to be drafted after all so what good is that initial goal?

    im not even being unfair with my speedster. he targets one character. i could have made him bash everyone with a shield but no. he kos one person. its not a speedblitz abuse. his main goal is defense after that.



    I simply didn't look very hard for speed feats - because, as I've just said, there's less focus on speed in this league. But if you insist...

    What about this?

    But, again, Hancock is quick as hell to begin with, let alone when he has a toonforce-style amping. The Mask is an item that, feasibly, could just allow him to ignore a damn timestop - just "because". But I haven't used it to that degree. All I've done is made the suggestion that it would allow an already super-fast individual to prevent another super-fast individual from crossing a distance longer than 3 miles before his teammates process a thought.
    Martian Manhunter owns music meister but i dont how fast that dude is. was he given superspeed in the show?

    anyway, theres no timestop here. its just quicksilver moving so fast explosions slow around him. the mask never moved that fast so why would he go that fast?

    Again, Psi... Psi is literally irrelevant in comparison to Jean alone, let alone Jean + J'onn with amping.

    Regarding the amping, are you actually serious?

    This is the Doctor. Have you ever seen the Doctor struggle with anything as basic as this? It's not about how powerful the Doctor's telepathy is (that was literally never part of my argument), it's about the fact that telepathy is a basic concept that he understands, and it involves the transmission of brainwaves.

    Can you honestly see the Doctor being presented as saying "I've got a Green Lantern ring that can create ANYTHING, and I want to amplify some psionic energy.... oh no, I'm totally stuck for ideas!!!"

    This would be easy for him. So, so, so, so easy. He's amplifying a signal. Something he's done countless times using Earth technology. Here, he gets to create the technology from scratch.
    I'm only using the doctors telepathy as an argument against his technology. Rassilon is a peer of the Doctor and almost as brilliant. Yet rassilon's best telepathy tech ends up being dogshit compared to cerebro. Why will the Doctors new tp tech suddenly end up hundreds of times better than Rassilon's telepathy tech.

    But it doesnt matter. Dr. Strange's yo-yofast sonic portals bring a portal right behind my team almost immediately, connecting your team to Psi. Psi is faster than the Doctor, faster than the Martian Manhunter (based on evidence provided so far), and she will react instantly to put down your team before those tp helmets get made. Again, her weakness is range, and youve brought all her enemies to her doorstep, basically rendering my move (where i wanted quicksilver to bring her closer) obsolete, and with the phoenix gone she has no pushback.

    Superfast Doctor Strange has laid the seeds of his own teams destruction.

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