Results 1 to 12 of 12
  1. #1
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Underneath the Brooklyn Bridge
    Posts
    1,208

    Default Should The Sandman Mythos Interact With The DCU More?

    There was a time where Dream, Death, etcetera, all of Neil Gaiman's Sandman characters interacted with the wider DC Universe every other day. In the first eight issues of the Sandman, Morpheus already had crossed paths with the likes Mister Miracle, Etrigan the Demon, Doctor Destiny, and Martian Manhunter. Death of the Endless also had a guest appearance in an issue of Cary Bates and Greg Weisman's Captain Atom. I didn't mind.

    However, as the Sandman series progressed, the roles of the heroes and villains of the DC Universe became less and less prevalent. Yet again, I didn't mind. The Sandman mythos worked as well independent of the DC Universe as it did within it.

    In spite of this, the Sandman brand, while acclaimed and famous, doesn't really sell all that great when not penned by Gaiman. All of the titles in the "Sandman Universe" line sell in the low 10,000s. Not bad for a Vertigo book some might say, but obviously not that impressive compared to how the original Sandman series sold.

    I'm wondering if these Vertigo titles, were cut down to one "Sandman" title and brought over to the DC's main line would sell far better? The characters would interact with their superhero peers and participate in the occasional crossover when appropriate. You don't have to get Neil Gaiman to write it, but someone who is generally well known and liked, such as Bill Willingham or Mark Russell. I reckon if this direction was taken, we could have a Sandman franchise title selling 40,000s to 30,000 units.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,816

    Default

    I would love to see it if done well, (and sparingly) but odds are it wouldn't be.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    10,395

    Default

    No, I don't think so.

    Not unless they are 'imaginary characters' in someone's dreams (like maybe Gardner Fox).
    "There's magic in the sound of analog audio." - CNET.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,355

    Default

    I'm not in favor. I liked Hellblazer a lot more as a Vertigo book and think it lost a lot of its purpose and bite when he joined the DCU proper. A big part of the appeal of Sandman to me is that it has its own rules and universe where anything can happen. Once they start playing with the DCU's toys they lose a lot of their power and ability to just go nuts. I'm also of the opinion that the original Sandman really got its footing and took off once it separated itself more from the DCU and became its own thing.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Underneath the Brooklyn Bridge
    Posts
    1,208

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel22 View Post
    I'm not in favor. I liked Hellblazer a lot more as a Vertigo book and think it lost a lot of its purpose and bite when he joined the DCU proper. A big part of the appeal of Sandman to me is that it has its own rules and universe where anything can happen. Once they start playing with the DCU's toys they lose a lot of their power and ability to just go nuts. I'm also of the opinion that the original Sandman really got its footing and took off once it separated itself more from the DCU and became its own thing.
    I think using Hellblazer as an analogy for your views is a false equivalency. In my opinion, the lack of superheroics in the Vertigo Hellblazer is leaps and bounds more essential to the atmosphere and workings of that book than The Sandman. There are gods and dieties in the DC Universe, so it doesn't seem that ludicrous for the Endless to exist in that continuity. On the other hand, it is extremely awkward having the down to earth, aged John Constantine in a universe that is very much larger than life and ageless. Also, it is possible to have Vertigo-esque titles with superheroes casually appearing. Look at James Robinson's Starman.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    16,211

    Default

    Feels like something that almost no one is asking for.

    Never mind that the run of Starman mentioned would probably last all of about eight issues nowadays.

    To me, that IP is served way better by having it's own little playground.

  7. #7
    Amazing Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    52

    Default

    No. I didn’t like it when Daniel showed up in Dark Nights: Metals. Just cameos and maybe one or two panels is enough

  8. #8
    Incredible Member Adset's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    582

    Default

    I've toyed with this question before, and I still don't know. It seems like it's easy to lean "no" because the properly worked so well independently... but does that not contradict the idea that Dream exists in all worlds and stories? Now, it's been a spell since I've read through Sandman, but in addition to certain mainstream DC characters showing up in that first Gaiman arc, didn't a few also appear in The Wake? The whole concept seems to be built around everybody traverses the Dreaming, so in that sense he seems to be open game.

    I would always worry about execution, though. I kind of like when Morrison used Daniel in JLA back in the 90s. I didn't care for Snyder's use of him in Metal. And didn't Death appear in Action Comics pre-New 52? That was just weird.

  9. #9
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    105

    Default

    If interaction elevates DCU characters to vertigo level in terms of more creative experimentation -- yes. For example in a prevertigo, "mature readers" story Swamp Thing challenges Superman on his heroic mindset. Answer is copout. But imagine otherwise -- deep stories on Superman's sensibility, Gaiman type narratives and treatments on Kryptonian mythology.

    Another example is when Morrison played a bit with Burroughs and Borges in Doom Patrol -- would love to see more of that with DCU characters.
    Last edited by smallo; 05-24-2019 at 10:11 AM.

  10. #10
    Incredible Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    775

    Default

    I always wanted Dream Girl of the Legion of Super Heroes to mention Daniel in passing - like they had a relationship at some point in her life - just so it was obvious that he was still around in the 31st century.

    If Daniel is anything like his father Morpheus, then he definitely would be attracted to Nura. LOL

  11. #11
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,236

    Default

    Nah. My understanding is that Neil Gaiman has creative control over Sandman. So anything done with those characters would have to go through him. And the more that the Sandman properties became interconnected with the rest of the DCU, the more the Gaiman tail would wag the DC dog.

    However, there are a lot of characters that were part of DC long before Gaiman got to use them. Call it the Orlandoverse. It shouldn't be that Gaiman can control them, as well. The hardest character to cut loose from the Sandman world is Destiny, because that is one of the Endless.

  12. #12
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    11,850

    Default

    Im not sure if tying the Sandman universe stuff to the wider DCU would result in higher sales. I mean, if you drop Batman in an issue, yeah, it'll probably sell better than usual. But what about all the other issues that *dont* feature Batman? They're probably going to sell roughly the same. It's been a long time since the original run and the market is pretty different now. Perhaps if they distributed Sandman differently it'd do better but I feel like the market has shrunk a fair amount since the heyday of Vertigo and Gaiman's Sandman.

    Now, if you want to have the Endless appear a little more often in other DC books, I'm all for it. I really enjoy seeing the Endless pop up in random DC titles, and that would help get the characters the kind of exposure that will help increase their profiles.

    But I feel like the Endless work best when they're mostly disconnected from the DCU. I like the idea that the entire DC multiverse is just one corner of the Endless' much larger world, and sticking them in DC would feel rather limiting I think. But I definitely like it when they visit.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •