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  1. #316
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Exactly.

    This just feels like another instance of DC not really being able to figure out what they are doing.

    The odds that this will be some sort of an exception seem pretty low.
    I think a huge part here is that the primary decision was to remove Tom King from Batman, not that he should be replaced by someone else. It shows in that the press release from DC talks about what King will do next, but very little about what will happen with the Batman title.

    DC can certainly manage to find a new writer (or writers), but the drama around King's run sure doesn't give the image of a nice place to work.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #317
    Spectacular Member Schumiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    could be, but Mitch Gerads said on twitter that it's 100% in continuity, so...

    hmmm... then I guess it is still possible issue 100 will be the wedding with this 12-issue series serving as a build-up to that... Could be that DC didn't want the main title hijacked for a 15 issue romance story and wanted it to have regular Batman stories.. Esp given how long the Bane arc has lasted, in which he is hitting rock bottom and generally been out of it, they probably didn't want to waste any more time before he went back to normal.

  3. #318
    Fantastic Member Eto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Since King’s run ends at 85 and goes back to monthly, does this mean it’s getting relaunched with a brand new #1 too or does it follow up with #86?
    That wouldn't be such a clever move from DC. They're so close to #100. Then again I wouldn't be surprised if DC would put a "shiny" #1 hopinh it would increase sales.
    Favourite DC heroes: Flash (Wally West), Red Hood (Jason Todd), Batman.

  4. #319
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eto View Post
    That wouldn't be such a clever move from DC. They're so close to #100. Then again I wouldn't be surprised if DC would put a "shiny" #1 hoping it would increase sales.
    This is DC, not Marvel. And it's not like Batman's numbers have dived to less than 30,000 or something: it's still the top-selling regular title from DC at the moment.
    So, I doubt they'd suddenly renumber to issue #1 "hoping it would increase sales" when they could just as easily start a third Bat-title with "a 'shiny' new #1" to achieve a massive sales boost for the Bat-books.
    (But then again, DC has been doing a lot of dumb-ass stuff in the past few years . . . )

  5. #320
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    So, I was on reddit and found this comment :

    Quote Originally Posted by omegabat
    Again I'm not seeing the comparison. Morrison left Batman because he wanted to leave, King literally got kicked out.

    Story wise Morrison had to try a whole bunch of ideas that he felt were not appropriate for the main book. In Batman and Robin we got a new Batman, a new Robin, new artists, new villains, new dynamic between the dynamic duo. Batman Inc too introduced new characters, locations, villains and concepts and Morrison killed Damian because Damian was his character and he planned it from day one.

    King on the other hand is writing the exact same thing that he's been writing for years with an artist who has already drawn a portion of his run.

    Finally I never even saw King as the lead force on the Batman line even when he wrote the Batman book. It was Snyder who got King the job, it was Snyder who got Tynion and Bennet the Tec and Batwoman gigs, it was Snyder who wrote All- Star Batman, its Snyder who's still writing the Batman who Laughs, its Snyder who'll write the Last Knight and the Batman who Laughs in turn will launch Batman/Superman ongoing. Snyder is still the drving force behind Batman. King has accomplished absolutely nothing and therefore I fail to understand comparisons to Morrison. Its King who has been the Tony Daniel of this era, even Tomasi just recently took initiative and introduced the Arkham Knight in the comics.

    You think this is like Morrison jumping from Batman to Batman and Robin. I think this is like Tony Daniel being forced to go from Batman to Detective to make way for a better team.
    I don't think I would necessarily agree with it, but it got me thinking... beyond being a very long run, what has King introduced to the Bat-mythos which will whist-hand the test of time - at least for a few years/a decade or two? I can think of Kite Man (Hell yeah) and... that's basically it. Or am i missing something ?

  6. #321
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    So, I was on reddit and found this comment :



    I don't think I would necessarily agree with it, but it got me thinking... beyond being a very long run, what has King introduced to the Bat-mythos which will whist-hand the test of time - at least for a few years/a decade or two? I can think of Kite Man (Hell yeah) and... that's basically it. Or am i missing something ?
    That and he brought back Frank Miller's rambling and repeating dialogue.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumiac View Post
    hmmm... then I guess it is still possible issue 100 will be the wedding with this 12-issue series serving as a build-up to that... Could be that DC didn't want the main title hijacked for a 15 issue romance story and wanted it to have regular Batman stories.. Esp given how long the Bane arc has lasted, in which he is hitting rock bottom and generally been out of it, they probably didn't want to waste any more time before he went back to normal.
    I kinda hope this was the reason they wanted it to be a separate book, and not necessarily because they objected to the specific changes he wanted to do in the last 15 issues. Because that essentially means he can still do what he wanted, it's just in a different title, and still canon and everything. But if it was very heavily Catwoman or relationship related and they thought the whole thing was just too unconventional or too heavy on the romance to be 15 issues of the Batman line and they'd rather have more "normal" Batman stories there (especially after the unconventional Knightmares arc lasting too long), then that's fine with me to do it under a new title. As long as it still counts.

  8. #323
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    So, I was on reddit and found this comment :



    I don't think I would necessarily agree with it, but it got me thinking... beyond being a very long run, what has King introduced to the Bat-mythos which will whist-hand the test of time - at least for a few years/a decade or two? I can think of Kite Man (Hell yeah) and... that's basically it. Or am i missing something ?
    I think it's hard to determine it right now, withouth the run having ended, because I don't know how many elements will be left after he finish it. I could say "introducing Flashpoint Batman to main timeline" as a change, to put an example, but maybe he dies in City of Bane and it's just an element made to begin and end with his run (like what Morrison tried to do with Damian Wayne).

    What we can consider is what he has put in canon: Batman trying to kill Riddler and Joker stopping him (and with that gesture, saving Batman); Bruce trying to commit suicide before making the vow at his parents' grave; Poison Ivy's murders in WoJ&R was retconed by Tom King himself, so I don't know if she has killed in canon nowadays, but if she hasn't it would be a change that would make her redemption and path towards heroism easier, but with her appearing (aparently at least) in the teaser to Year of the Villain I don't know if it's what DC is aiming for. There are other changes to be listed, concerning Bane and his romance with Catwoman, but the endurance of what King has done will depend on what writers decide to do with those concepts and changes.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  9. #324
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    I think it's hard to determine it right now, withouth the run having ended, because I don't know how many elements will be left after he finish it. I could say "introducing Flashpoint Batman to main timeline" as a change, to put an example, but maybe he dies in City of Bane and it's just an element made to begin and end with his run (like what Morrison tried to do with Damian Wayne).

    What we can consider is what he has put in canon: Batman trying to kill Riddler and Joker stopping him (and with that gesture, saving Batman); Bruce trying to commit suicide before making the vow at his parents' grave; Poison Ivy's murders in WoJ&R was retconed by Tom King himself, so I don't know if she has killed in canon nowadays, but if she hasn't it would be a change that would make her redemption and path towards heroism easier, but with her appearing (aparently at least) in the teaser to Year of the Villain I don't know if it's what DC is aiming for. There are other changes to be listed, concerning Bane and his romance with Catwoman, but the endurance of what King has done will depend on what writers decide to do with those concepts and changes.
    I think there's also the difference in each writers approach to their storytelling. Snyder's way is essentially building ontop of himself with bigger and bigger stories, that eventually end up splitting off and effecting everyone else, while King is more focused on telling one really long, and relatively personal, story. And I don't think a run HAS to add or introduce something in order to be worthwhile, it just needs to do what it sets out to do really well, which has essentially been to tell, in his words, the biggest Bane story since Knightfall, and the biggest Batman/Catwoman story period.

    Also I think King connects with Morrison more than Snyder in that for both writers, you really need to read the entire run in order to get the most out of it, while for Snyder, each of his stories and arcs (extending beyond just his initial run) are designed to be read as standalones (the "tradables" as I call em).
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  10. #325
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I think there's also the difference in each writers approach to their storytelling. Snyder's way is essentially building ontop of himself with bigger and bigger stories, that eventually end up splitting off and effecting everyone else, while King is more focused on telling one really long, and relatively personal, story. And I don't think a run HAS to add or introduce something in order to be worthwhile, it just needs to do what it sets out to do really well, which has essentially been to tell, in his words, the biggest Bane story since Knightfall, and the biggest Batman/Catwoman story period.

    Also I think King connects with Morrison more than Snyder in that for both writers, you really need to read the entire run in order to get the most out of it, while for Snyder, each of his stories and arcs (extending beyond just his initial run) are designed to be read as standalones (the "tradables" as I call em).
    I agree with you, especially in what I bolded. It depends in the writer and what he wants to achieve
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  11. #326
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    . . . What we can consider is what he has put in canon: Batman trying to kill Riddler and Joker stopping him (and with that gesture, saving Batman); Bruce trying to commit suicide before making the vow at his parents' grave; Poison Ivy's murders in WoJ&R was retconed by Tom King himself, so I don't know if she has killed in canon nowadays, but if she hasn't it would be a change that would make her redemption and path towards heroism easier, but with her appearing (aparently at least) in the teaser to Year of the Villain I don't know if it's what DC is aiming for. There are other changes to be listed, concerning Bane and his romance with Catwoman, but the endurance of what King has done will depend on what writers decide to do with those concepts and changes.
    Hopefully any future writers will ignore / retcon all the ways King has destroyed a character that I use to enjoy.

  12. #327
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    DC has announced that they are returning all books to monthly shipping next year. With this in mind, it becomes obviously clear why King was removed from Batman.

    To commit to this statement. Batman must go monthly, but DC loves that semi-monthly Batman cash. So they make King's Batman a secondary title to have a second stream of Batman flow. Because no other secondary Batman title is going to draw sales next to that.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


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