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  1. #286
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, again, I felt pretty sure this was above Didio.

    I think HiC has established by this point that they work well together and have compatible approaches to Superheroes.
    Honestly, DC's hierarchy in general is just completely out of whack. Like based on everything he does and says, I would believe that Didio is the EIC, since his role is very similar to how Cebulski handles things over at Marvel. But apparently he's not, he's the "Co-Publisher" and Harras is the EIC, even though I rarely ever hear about what he actually does for the company/books.

    Also, if it turns out that it was Harras' doing and Didio disagreed with it, wouldn't have Didio have been able to overrule him since he technically outranks him? I'm probably missing something and its not that easy, just goes with the question of how DC's executive lineup works.

    Like someone mentioned, the Under The Moon Catwoman had like 10 different executives listed, just showing how overprotective and overcompensating they're trying to be.
    Last edited by Inversed; 05-23-2019 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #287
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    She wouldn't have to be there all the time even if they were married, but occasionally and more than in the past, probably. And is that really such a big deal?
    The big deal is that King's successor might have a different story they want to tell/want to take the character in a different direction.

    I mean mandates are nothing new and in those situations then the writer will have to abide.


    She wouldn't have to be there all the time even if they were married So she'll be like Duke at the start of King's run. Just hanging around like furniture ? What is the point of them being married then? Is it just symbolic?

  3. #288
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    If one issue was DC not being down with his planned "generational" change, I have a hard time seeing that as the potential that he really planned on marrying them. I mean, today, that's really not THAT huge a deal. Lots of heroes are married in this returned continuity. I mean, I could easily seem some within the company having a preference of not doing it, but to the point of truncating the run like this when its not so far off from the intended end? Its just hard to imagine. Makes me think the intended change was something else entirely.
    Agree with all this.

  4. #289
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I never said it was unfair.

    I just don't think writers should be forced to write married life or include Selina or any other family members they don't want to. The gig is Batman.

    Just because he is married doesn't mean the next writer has to reflect this.

    Batman has Cass, Damian and Tim living at home we didn't see them in King's run because they didn't fit his story but that doesn't stop them still living at the manor.

    It's the idea of forcing writers that I have an issue with.
    You can say this about literally any status quo or any pairing of characters, it doesn't become about "forcing writers to write something they don't want to", and instead its "limiting your character to the barest bones possible".

    The past 20 years of Daredevil have already proven that status quo destroying endings can lead incredibly new and creative runs. Also, would you say the same thing about Superman?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    The big deal is that King's successor might have a different story they want to tell/want to take the character in a different direction.

    I mean mandates are nothing new and in those situations then the writer will have to abide.
    The difference is, its not like they have a successor prepared who doesn't want a specific status quo for their story, they're literally just going in on the "broad possibility" that absolutely no other writer would want to do it.

  5. #290
    Fantastic Member Nero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Because they don't own the characters. The company owns the characters and they can determine which direction they want to go. The writers give them ideas and they decide if it should be executed

    So if they decide Batman should get married, then the next writer has to adjust to that status quo. That's their job.

    Likewise, if they decide Batman shouldn't get married, then the writer has to follow that.

    Likewise, if they decide the Batman status quo should reset, then the next writer has to follow that.

    They're given a certain freedom in order to utilize their creative ideas, but ultimately DC writers are employees.
    I know how it goes. My point was, IMO the marriage shouldn't be the be all end all for the Batman book.

  6. #291
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    But would it be SO BAD to let it stick for a while and force successors to deal with a married Batman? Why would that be such a terrible thing?
    Because King's foundations are all rotten. I've nothing against a married Batman. But after King's run, I don't want him near Catwoman at all. I didn't care for this pairing, then King's made me care, and now I find the two of them toxic. That's how bad King is with managing the Bat characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    That's impossible in Gotham Girl's case, as she only debuted in the first arc of King's run, and is his original creation. She can't be out of character.
    It hasn't prevented King from taking a very interesting premise and utterly scandering any and all potential the character had, to the point that while I started her appreciation thread, I was extremely angry she didn't die in The Price crossover and are angrier to even see her as a sort of Flashpoint Batman's Robin. This character has -sadl-- quite overstayed her welcome. The sooner she's dead for good/put in limbo forever, the better.
    Last edited by Korath; 05-23-2019 at 10:55 PM.

  7. #292
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    You can say this about literally any status quo or any pairing of characters, it doesn't become about "forcing writers to write something they don't want to", and instead its "limiting your character to the barest bones possible".

    The past 20 years of Daredevil have already proven that status quo destroying endings can lead incredibly new and creative runs. Also, would you say the same thing about Superman?



    The difference is, its not like they have a successor prepared who doesn't want a specific status quo for their story, they're literally just going in on the "broad possibility" that absolutely no other writer would want to do it.
    It is about forcing the successor to write the marriage. Those were the exact words the op I was replying to used.

  8. #293
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I never said it was unfair.

    I just don't think writers should be forced to write married life or include Selina or any other family members they don't want to. The gig is Batman.

    Just because he is married doesn't mean the next writer has to reflect this.

    Batman has Cass, Damian and Tim living at home we didn't see them in King's run because they didn't fit his story but that doesn't stop them still living at the manor.

    It's the idea of forcing writers that I have an issue with.
    If you want to write Batman you could always just write around it. Batman and Selina can be married but she's out in Paris or something and Batman is super deep into some mystery or something. It's not that difficult.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    Right. The sales thing is just laughable on its face, considering they have no one lined up and it's going to be 7 months of random filler until someone else can take over. Yeah, that's really going to boost your sales.
    Who ever comes in after King, has still 8 month till his first issue gets published and (assuming the next bog writer comes in at issue 100) 14 issues to work with.

    I think with those circumstances it is possible to deliver something better than random filler, even if you lets say split those 14 issues in 2 or 3 arcs, and let each write by a different creative team, they can still deliver something entertaining.

  10. #295
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Honestly, DC's hierarchy in general is just completely out of whack. Like based on everything he does and says, I would believe that Didio is the EIC, since his role is very similar to how Cebulski handles things over at Marvel. But apparently he's not, he's the "Co-Publisher" and Harras is the EIC, even though I rarely ever hear about what he actually does for the company/books.

    Also, if it turns out that it was Harras' doing and Didio disagreed with it, wouldn't have Didio have been able to overrule him since he technically outranks him? I'm probably missing something and its not that easy, just goes with the question of how DC's executive lineup works.

    Like someone mentioned, the Under The Moon Catwoman had like 10 different executives listed, just showing how overprotective and overcompensating they're trying to be.
    Wait, Didio isn't Editor in Chief? I always thought... oh... that's his previous job, isn't it?

    I never heard anything about Harras. It's always Didio this and that.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    Right. The sales thing is just laughable on its face, considering they have no one lined up and it's going to be 7 months of random filler until someone else can take over. Yeah, that's really going to boost your sales.

    No, the issue is either with King's ending or just an issue with King altogether. But if it's just King himself (because Harras hates him and doesn't like his book), then letting him go all the way up to 85 and then not letting him finish it when you have nothing to replace it with is absurd. That makes no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    Actually they have about 7 months of material (assumes double shipping and him leaving at #85) before the new writer comes onboard. So they probably have time to start assembling a new creative team and get them to create new material. If it's someone fast like Bendis paired with a fast artist, they probably won't have problems with a time crunch.
    Some may enjoy this filler more than the previous run.

  12. #297
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilyrose View Post
    I hope it was something else, because if they okayed him being married that means it could still happen by the end. But given that whatever was going on in the last 15 issues apparently involved Catwoman, I have this feeling like there must have been some objection to it, and now who knows if he can actually do it.

    Turning it into an elseworlds story is essentially saying it never really happened.
    This is just pure speculation on my part but I'm wondering if it wasn't the marriage, but an addition to it. My thought is maybe the huge shift was that Bruce really did retire after marrying Selina, ironically just like Thomas had originally wanted. Timed to a resolution of the Ric stuff in which Dick returned and took over being Batman for a long term period. Its not something that's not been done before obviously, but the plan of making it long-term, with no foreseeable return of Bruce in the cowl would be a pretty big deal, and that's something controversial enough that I could see higher ups saying wait just a darn minute here.

    I just don't buy marriage alone being the whole of the issue for this reaction. Again I can easily see some's personal preference being not having it, just like I'm sure there's those within the company would rather Superman not be married either, but the reaction of putting the kibosh on the ending of a run already in its third act just says more to it. At least to me.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 05-24-2019 at 11:03 AM.
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  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    Honestly, DC's hierarchy in general is just completely out of whack. Like based on everything he does and says, I would believe that Didio is the EIC, since his role is very similar to how Cebulski handles things over at Marvel. But apparently he's not, he's the "Co-Publisher" and Harras is the EIC, even though I rarely ever hear about what he actually does for the company/books.
    Didio having a more active role is his decision since his predecessor Paul Levitz was more hands off. Ideally the creative/personnel decisions should be left to creators and editorial, but Didio's active involvement in these decisions is because he wants to be involved and it probably plays to his ego

    Harras I think has intentionally stayed away from the spotlight since he probably realizes that many of his decisions (such as this one) results in negative PR so how his decision making effects the day to day running of DC is just unknown. The only major things we know he was involved in were: 1) New 52 and trying to incorporate Jim Lee's Wildstorm material into the DCU and setting up a crossover (that never happened) as well as the chaos of that period, 2) the presence of many 90s Marvel staff like Mackie, Defalco, Nocenti during early 52 with Scott Lobdell being the only one left around as well as the elevation of his assistant Bobbie Chase to oversee imprints and talent development.

    If you read the tea leaves Lobdell being put on Nightwing is probably a sign of Harras undercutting the independence of Batman editorial which generally has had a high level of independence from higher ups since Mike Marts and the Morrison era.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I do find it pretty funny how the comic book industry higher-ups have such a negative view on marriage.
    I think a lot of these people are like Joe Q and think comics should be escapist fantasy while projecting their rather negative views of marriage/relationships onto comic book characters. So as a result you get OMD at Marvel or the no-marriage-rule at DC.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 05-24-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    This is just pure speculation on my part but I'm wondering if it wasn't the marriage, but an addition to it. My thought is maybe the huge shift was that Bruce really did retire after marrying Selina, ironically just like Thomas had originally wanted. Timed to a resolution of the Ric stuff in which Dick returned and took over being Batman for a long term period. Its not something that's not been done before obviously, but the plan of making it long-term, with no foreseeable return of Bruce in the cowl would be a pretty big deal, and that's something controversial enough that I could see higher ups saying wait just a darn minute here.

    I just don't buy marriage alone being the whole of the issue for this reaction. Again I can easily see some's personal preference being not having it, just like I'm sure there's those within the company would rather Superman not be married either, but the reaction of putting the kibosh on the ending of a run already in its third act just says more to it. At least to me.
    If that's the case then that would mean there's nothing preventing them from marrying in the end anyway, so he could still do have that happen. But I don't know if he'd have time to do it by issue 85.

  15. #300
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    So people over here know, here's the confirmation. King is leaving Batman and getting his own Batman/Catwoman maxi series that'll run monthly. https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2019/0...at-cat-romance

    And now we just have to wait for the "when" King or someone reveals exactly how last minute this decision was.

    (Also side note, since it states DC's plans for 2020 is making changes to their line, with the first being making Batman monthly again, I wonder if this means all of their books will be switching to monthly now, which at this point I believe is just Flash and Wonder Woman remaining)

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