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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It was always stupid of King to assume he was guaranteed 100 issues. In today’s market that is extremely rare, even for top-selling creatives. He should’ve taken that into account and not wasted so much time on bull crap filler. We’ll see soon enough how true this is I guess.
    But a lot of writers are doing that. Especially the guy doing Black Panther & Cap America.

    So why is it an issue NOW?

    Also if King could get removed from a book based on lower sales-Dc has some EXPLAINING to do. Where was upper management during the butchering of Wally West, Teen Titans, Titans alum, Hal Jordan & TGLC and others?

    Unless DC has some big name writer hired and they want Batman. Someone OUTSIDE of comics but has writing experience.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    But a lot of writers are doing that. Especially the guy doing Black Panther & Cap America.

    So why is it an issue NOW?
    Ok I'm not following Black Panther & Cap America but something like "Knightmares" which is basically an entire TPB of Filler is a little bit extreme. And everything else he did between the wedding and Knightmares, was also quite slow paced, and not particularly exciting.
    I guess he wanted to go for a slow build up, but that was way to slow.

    And I guess that heroes in crisis played also a role.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I would think no matter what is going on, I want to believe its not DC kicking him off the book preemptively, just because it probably would be the stupidest decision DC has done in a LONG while.

    No matter what you're feeling on his run currently, King IS one of the most popular and sought after creators in the entire industry right now. DC effectively spent the past year making him, Snyder, and Bendis their architects of the universe going forward. They recognize how important of a commodity he is, and now doing this, what happens? Is he still stuck in his contract, essentially forcing him to stay but to do "something else", or will he get out of it and they end up losing him to another company (you know Cebulski's got that phone ready if something turns out true).

    Also, it would be a PR disaster. There have been so many King interviews in the biggest media news outlets beyond just comic ones, so him essentially being kicked off his book near the end, that'll gain attention, and almost certainly not gonna be anything positive.

    And then there's King being an incredibly loved being within the comics industry in general, so the question becomes who would willingly choose to replace him, because I feel like no big name on King's scale would take the job out of respect for him, and any smaller no names that would accept it wouldn't be a big enough draw that would help entice people anyway.

    Ultimately, there's nothing really in this decision that could positively benefit DC in any way, beyond the "smallest possibility of higher sales", which despite the "diminishing returns", his Batman is still their highest selling ongoing. Mitch Gerads' recent tweets make me now believe that there must be something else going on beyond just "getting kicked off", I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be a relaunch, but we'll just have to wait and see.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  4. #64
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    I just can't believe they would do this when he literally has 10 issues left to write. That's just so unfair.

    UNLESS they're giving him some sort of separate book/new title/mini-series for the last part. That interview with him from today (even if he did it days ago or something), is the second time he mentions that the last 15 issues are a separate thing, like an epilogue or tying stuff up.

    It's possible they might be doing something like that with it...and maybe that's what Gerads is hinting at.

  5. #65
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    Btw. the main reason that Kings sales dropped 40K issues in comparison to last year is that last year the sales were boosted because of the anticipated Wedding, if you go back another year sales were only arround 100K copies per issue, in comparison to that the losses are not that massive.

  6. #66
    Fantastic Member Gurz's Avatar
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    I think he should finish his run with 100 issues or whatever he wants... I like the focus on Bruce & Selina relationship. But what he did in heroes in crisis was pretty much carrier suicide... I can understand the mad fans, i also like wally but i don't hate Tom King or anything... Man... what he did was crazy... i still can't believe he did what he did with Wally...
    Bad bad boy with a bad bad girl in a bad bad world.

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  7. #67
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    King may have gotten too big for his britches . . . didn't he already get one editor removed from Batman because of a disagreement about who King wanted for the artwork of an arc or something?

    Remember, it's not as if King has ownership of Batman. It could be something where King wanted to do something and was told he couldn't. (Remember Andy Diggle and his brief run on Action Comics several years ago?)

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    King may have gotten too big for his britches . . . didn't he already get one editor removed from Batman because of a disagreement about who King wanted for the artwork of an arc or something?

    Remember, it's not as if King has ownership of Batman. It could be something where King wanted to do something and was told he couldn't. (Remember Andy Diggle and his brief run on Action Comics several years ago?)
    He did get the editor that was there when he arrived removed over a dispute about artists.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Course correction is one thing (and something that should be done earlier), but committing to long-term plans only to break one of your hottest talents' ankles right before the finish line when they're still making you more bank than most others is wack, gross, and unethical. Bad for creators and bad for fans. Both for fans of the run and fans who don't like it when the precedent is set for plans for stuff they like to suddenly be aborted because of some manageable sales dip. Wack, wack, wackity wack.
    We'll learn more about this soon enough, but it does seem that he was going for a story that had some major changes to the series, so it makes sense for that to be vetoed especially if his cache has taken a hit with declining sales, and the response to Heroes in Crisis. This was probably not the ideal way for DC to handle the decision on their biggest book, and it's an error on their end to assume that the writer doesn't have a big part to do with sales.

  10. #70
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    He did get the editor that was there when he arrived removed over a dispute about artists.
    It was about bringing David Finch back for issue #24. King wanted that, Mark Doyle didn't. I don't know the details or if there're more, so I can't confirm if King asked to have another editor, if Doyle decided to go from the Batman title because he wasn't getting along with King or any other option there could be
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  11. #71
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    We'll learn more about this soon enough, but it does seem that he was going for a story that had some major changes to the series, so it makes sense for that to be vetoed especially if his cache has taken a hit with declining sales, and the response to Heroes in Crisis. This was probably not the ideal way for DC to handle the decision on their biggest book, and it's an error on their end to assume that the writer doesn't have a big part to do with sales.
    I don't have any facts to support it, so it's just a feeling, but I don't see DC being surprise about HIC's backlash. It was pretty obvious that fans wouldn't like what was done to Wally West and I thought the controversy was quite deliberate by DC. And Tom King has been pretty open about his 100 issues run, so I don't know how big the change he intended can be so DC is now getting cold feet. Maybe he planned it recently and DC didn't want to go along (which means the run works without that change) or he hid it until now and pitched the run without it (the run can still work without it). About sales, and knowing there's a big market not contemplated in them, unknown to us as fans, I don't think they have fallen much, because it's still a top title sold twice a month, and I find it odd if really that's the reason (if the rumor was true, of course), because DC knows is a long planned run that is almost 3/4 done and they have indulged King talking about it, which makes me believe they gave King reasons to believe he wasn't going to get cut short
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  12. #72
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    It's just treading water anyway.


    Weird though I thought hed want the monumental, bold font, 100 ISSUES.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    If his Batman run doesn't cross the 100 mark is there as much a point to the needless padding? Like I guess 100 issues will be 100 issues, but man, shooting for issue numbers instead of end goals was pretty dumb to begin with.

    It just makes me saltier about the needless padding. You could cut a solid 24 issues from the current 71 issues and still have told essentially the same story.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  14. #74
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    We'll learn more about this soon enough, but it does seem that he was going for a story that had some major changes to the series, so it makes sense for that to be vetoed especially if his cache has taken a hit with declining sales, and the response to Heroes in Crisis. This was probably not the ideal way for DC to handle the decision on their biggest book, and it's an error on their end to assume that the writer doesn't have a big part to do with sales.
    Yeah I agree, this must have been more creative differences than sales. Only explanation that makes sense to me considering how big King is and considering that the sales were still on top. I mean, a short while after he says he’ll make a permanent mark, he gets the boot. I’m curious where he goes from here. I wouldn’t be surprised if he jumps back to marvel.
    So there’s no end in sight to the Williamson Flash run? I’m guess that will be the one rebirth run to make it to #100. Or am I missing something?

  15. #75
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    King may have gotten too big for his britches . . . didn't he already get one editor removed from Batman because of a disagreement about who King wanted for the artwork of an arc or something?

    Remember, it's not as if King has ownership of Batman. It could be something where King wanted to do something and was told he couldn't. (Remember Andy Diggle and his brief run on Action Comics several years ago?)
    Apparently it’s that he was told he could but now someone changed their mind after he’s already started it.

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