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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caivu View Post
    A very strong case for the Mark Shaw theory:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co..._leviathan_is/
    Having just skimmed it, I could honestly get behind this. It does explain the connection to Kate Spencer and the logo is compelling evidence.

  2. #227
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    Leviathan's new look certainly does feel like it's meant to straight up look a lot like Manhunter's 80s costumes as well as perhaps have the Dumas / Azrael resemblance. The emblem certainly resembles it as well. A secret base located in a possible alternate future? Interesting.

    Leviathan speaks with the voice of a young guy.
    Last edited by K. Jones; 09-13-2019 at 12:28 AM.
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  3. #228
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K. Jones View Post

    Leviathan speaks with the voice of a young guy.
    Definitively; he doesn't strike me as a seasoned veteran who has had it with the world as it is, but more like a young idealist who decides to change the world into a better place, by force if necessary, while adhering to some moral codes.

    In that respect, a future Damian could indeed make sense (even if I would be a little disappointed, I won't lie - but at that point, I think that not knowing who Leviathan is would be the only outcome where I wouldn't be too hyped to not feel down because of the reveal!). It would basically complete his arc : he's educated to become a conqueror, then becomes a Bat, feel that it isn't sufficient and more or less blend the villainous and heroic behavior but in an auto-destructive way (in Teen Titans) and -depending on whether or not Bendis consider his time as Ra's al Ghul in the Batman Beyond timeline canon- finally manages to blend the two parts of his upbringing in a healthier way.

    Still, the symbol remains. Why would he chose one so comparable to the Manhunter's ? And why would Bendis reveal that the building in Mellenium was a Leviathan base, so late in the game ? He knows that everyone's speculating, and while he wants some people to find who Leviathan is, I don't think he would truly give it away now. But as a misdirection, it seems a bit too much...

    I really can't know what theory support, now !

  4. #229
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    The only hesitation I have with giving the voice any weight is that it’s Bendis and all his characters tend to speak in a younger sounding voice. That said, it definitely sounds like a younger skewing individual. Not sure it has to be a man though.

    If it’s a Manhunter, I think Kate Spencer actually makes more sense. Has the Mark Shaw Manhunter appeared or really been mentioned beyond the vague allusion to him in 4? Talia impersonating Kate could have been an attempt to implicate her directly since we know Talia was working against Leviathan. Kate’s role also would make it a very Usual Suspects situation. I still think Ollie is involved as well to a very large extent if not a mole himself.

  5. #230
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    This could all be pointing to Kate just as much as Mark - maybe even moreso since Mark's been absent from all this so far - not even mentioned.

    1) Classic misdirection to make yourself seem like a target (Ozymandias, for one) and it gets you in with the heroes investigating Leviathan.
    2) Her kid is where? Summer camp? Or secluded and safe while she launches her plan
    3) Damian asks, "Do you make your tech?" No, she does not. She originally stole the alien tech, then coerced someone to help her.
    4) She originally became Manhunter because she wanted to murder someone who had escaped justice. What is it Leviathan keeps saying? That the system isn't working?

    The prosecution rests.

  6. #231
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    This could all be pointing to Kate just as much as Mark - maybe even moreso since Mark's been absent from all this so far - not even mentioned.

    1) Classic misdirection to make yourself seem like a target (Ozymandias, for one) and it gets you in with the heroes investigating Leviathan.
    2) Her kid is where? Summer camp? Or secluded and safe while she launches her plan
    3) Damian asks, "Do you make your tech?" No, she does not. She originally stole the alien tech, then coerced someone to help her.
    4) She originally became Manhunter because she wanted to murder someone who had escaped justice. What is it Leviathan keeps saying? That the system isn't working?

    The prosecution rests.
    Leviathan is almost essentially Kate's original MO just blown up to a much greater scope. The statement that they tried it Batman's way could just be an allusion to her vigilante career in general as well.

  7. #232
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    It jus occurred to me that I'd prefer if they didn't reveal his identity.

    From the looks to the methods to what little we can peak at his motivations: this is already the best new villain since, I think, "The Reach", and that is over ten years.

    I wouldn't mind keeping him around a little longer.
    I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this Leviathan the organization sticks around as DC's version of SHIELD, but maybe a little shadier in terms of morality, potentially leading us into the future of Doomsday Clock where there's less public trust of capes.

  8. #233
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    I don't know if I mentioned it here (I keep pointing it out in the thread about discussing suspects) but Manhunter is the only one of the main cast who is never shown in the recap/credit pages each issue.

  9. #234

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    I won't pretend to have this whole thing figured out, but I do have some ideas. This is a fun, layered mystery.

    A few months back, the intelligence community specifically targeted Oliver Queen, blew up his house, essentially tore up his life. The reason for this was that Oliver had been given a mystery box by J'onn J'onzz, that supposedly could take out the Justice League. During his flight Oliver opens the box, finds it empty, and discards it. However, we see the abandoned box pulsing with some sort of energy. Could Ollie have retrieved it? As he departs Ollie suggests that he is giving up the Green Arrow identity but says "see you soon".

    When Oliver next appears in the YotV Special, he's back in uniform and in Seattle as if GA #50 never happened. We never see what happens to him after the explosion. We're told by Leviathan that Oliver is "safe". We're told in EL through dialogue that he woke up at home, unharmed. Why is Oliver at the explosion site in Coast City?

    Leviathan's home base appears to be Seattle. When Superman sends the detectives out of the room to speak to Lois, it's Oliver who gets the others to comply, out of respect for Superman. When Kate Spencer questions why she is there, Oliver answers the question - she's his lawyer. She has little apparent connection to the intelligence community (although she was friends with Cameron Chase), but Kate does have a connection to Oliver.

    When Batgirl calls the Batcave, she asks who is there with Batman. She does not ask where Oliver is, or if he is all right, even though that's the first thing she asked Leviathan after being abducted. Almost immediately once the detectives realize they can trace Batgirl's transmission, the Seattle base explodes/ vanishes - as if Leviathan was either monitoring them in real time, or was present in the Batcave.

    Lois has a second team of detectives. Are they conducting a parallel investigation, or are they investigating the investigators? When Zatanna tells Lois she "won't like it", is that because they've uncovered something about Leviathan, or about one of the other detectives.

    The biggest problem with Ollie-as-Leviathan is that they have appeared to be in more than one place at once. It's the same flaw as the Damian theory - but it has the same solution if Leviathan has access to time travel tech.

    Silencer has a history with Leviathan of course, but she was "retired" when we saw her last. A deposed Talia would be short on assets, and would be likely to reach out to people outside the organization. Would she suspect Batman of being Leviathan? Or might she suspect Damian?

    Then there's the question of the end goal. What purpose is served by pulling down all the various spy apparatuses but not the world's governments? Batgirl's suggestion of the tech, assets etc being cannibalized suggests that the fragmentation of those organizations is viewed by Leviathan as "the problem". Presumably it would be replaced by something less fragmented. What about a new organization, pulling from the best of the best of all the existing groups, answerable to no government, that could direct its resources toward improving the world in an organized way? Picture The Pantheon from Marvel, but on an even larger scale.
    Cheers - CL

  10. #235
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    *WARNING* Don't read the December Solit for Lois Lane - it pretty much spoils at least one part of "Event Leviathan."

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this Leviathan the organization sticks around as DC's version of SHIELD, but maybe a little shadier in terms of morality, potentially leading us into the future of Doomsday Clock where there's less public trust of capes.
    I can't think of a single major DCU government organization that isn't shady. I mean, Waller? Bones?

    Makes me miss the day when you could at least maybe trust Sarge Steel...

  12. #237
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Another excellent issue of the event, with some seriously touching moments.

    spoilers:
    I'm thinking mostly of Sam Lane's death in his daughter's arms, really saddening despite the terrible character he has been for most of his publishing history.
    end of spoilers

    The last page made me equally happy and a little lost, considering the characters involved, but if it makes one of those higher profile, I'm game !

    spoilers:
    Last time they saw each other, Talia and Silencer were in very bad terms, yet they seem to be working together again. I guess her family has been threatened by the new Leviathan, forcing Honor back into service to Talia?
    end of spoilers

    And sorry Superlad, but your theory about who Leviathan is seems to be false !

  13. #238
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    This series is Bendis' best DC work by far.
    I loved seeing that particular New Age of Heroes character. She should get a bigger spotlight, much like Kate Spencer.

  14. #239
    Fantastic Member qwertyuiop1998's Avatar
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    Bendis recently best work imo, Leviathan's attitude and theory are interesting
    "Dangerous Zombie! Transform!! Click And Load! Buggle UP! Danger! Danger! Death The Crisis! Dangerous Zombie!" Kamen Rider Gemn
    (In first he's mysterious and evil and now he's psycho and crazy and insane and evil AND "The Meme Lord"LOL.)

  15. #240
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    I feel like all the implications that Manhunter is behind this are red herrings. Even if he or Kate have the motive(not familiar with either character) how did they get the means for pulling this off?

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