Event Leviathan discussion thread

[j9ac9k]

Very compelling argument for the future Damian theory.

Question:
Why would Damian frame Kate? He likely doesn't have something personal against her or against any Manhunter. Was it one of those time travel things where he needed Kate involved so that Damian would ... get hold of her staff? Some element to fit into place to ensure his future? Is that enough of a reason for Damian to use that Manhunter symbol as his own? Instead of a past Manhunter, he's the future Manhunter before becoming Leviathan?

[Superlad93]

Very compelling argument for the future Damian theory.

Question:
Why would Damian frame Kate? He likely doesn't have something personal against her or against any Manhunter. Was it one of those time travel things where he needed Kate involved so that Damian would ... get hold of her staff? Some element to fit into place to ensure his future? Is that enough of a reason for Damian to use that Manhunter symbol as his own? Instead of a past Manhunter, he's the future Manhunter before becoming Leviathan?

I don't think I, or anyone else, can answer the why of any of this yet. That's something that's being played close to the vest, and as Jason pointed out in issue 3, it's the biggest part after the who. Like, if this is a future Damian, then that means he's got years of experience that we haven't seen. Apparently he and Bruce have a falling out down the line and it "ended badly."

But I think you may be onto something with him needing her involved so younger Damian would learn about her tech. Or maybe her grown up son is allied with Damian (he was mentioned in passing). Or maybe Kate is actually Talia's guess as to who Leviathan is, and she set her up in the hopes that it would disrupt things? Remember, Leviathan never set up Kate. That was Talia's rough cell trying to wrestle control away while doing things in its name. Or maybe the Manhunter tech is the key somehow?

I just think back to the panel layout and pacing of issue 4 where Kate and everyone else are wondering why she's here, and once she wonders out loud, almost as if to answer it, Damian holds her staff and says that he's too young to have ever even heard of her but wants to know about her tech.

[Robotman]

If it does end up being future Damian, it would be pretty cool if Batman 666 Damian shows up to help stop him. It would indicate the future is not set in stone and Damian can still choose to follow in Bruce’s footsteps instead of Talia’s.

[Tenzel Kim]

I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this Leviathan the organization sticks around as DC's version of SHIELD...

While I wouldn't mind seeing Leviathan sticking around as an organization, my biggest fear is that we are going to lose a lot of the organizations that made up the DCU up until now.

I like the fact that we've had so many different organizations including A.R.G.U.S., D.E.O., Checkmate, H.I.V.E., Task Force X, S.H.A.D.E., and Spyral. They all bring something different to the table so merging it all into one would be a huge mistake so hopefully we're not headed in that direction.

[Desmark]

While I wouldn't mind seeing Leviathan sticking around as an organization, my biggest fear is that we are going to lose a lot of the organizations that made up the DCU up until now.

I like the fact that we've had so many different organizations including A.R.G.U.S., D.E.O., Checkmate, H.I.V.E., Task Force X, S.H.A.D.E., and Spyral. They all bring something different to the table so merging it all into one would be a huge mistake so hopefully we're not headed in that direction.

Too late to hope for that as this event' is specifically tailored towards the purpose of cutting down those agencies as editorial felt these organizations have become redundant with overlapping purposes.

[Pohzee]

At the bare minimum, I'd like to keep Spyral around as its purpose was a counter-organization to Leviathan.

But I also like all the other ones too and wish they'd stick around.

[Tenzel Kim]

Too late to hope for that as this event' is specifically tailored towards the purpose of cutting down those agencies as editorial felt these organizations have become redundant with overlapping purposes.

Well, let's hope the writers have more sense and start reintroducing them under the radar of the editors then

[Frontier]

While I wouldn't mind seeing Leviathan sticking around as an organization, my biggest fear is that we are going to lose a lot of the organizations that made up the DCU up until now.

I like the fact that we've had so many different organizations including A.R.G.U.S., D.E.O., Checkmate, H.I.V.E., Task Force X, S.H.A.D.E., and Spyral. They all bring something different to the table so merging it all into one would be a huge mistake so hopefully we're not headed in that direction.

Yeah, I really liked that DC didn't really have a SHIELD equivalent and had multiple government/espionage organizations, even if more often then not they were ill-defined or underused.

[Robotman]

While I wouldn't mind seeing Leviathan sticking around as an organization, my biggest fear is that we are going to lose a lot of the organizations that made up the DCU up until now.

I like the fact that we've had so many different organizations including A.R.G.U.S., D.E.O., Checkmate, H.I.V.E., Task Force X, S.H.A.D.E., and Spyral. They all bring something different to the table so merging it all into one would be a huge mistake so hopefully we're not headed in that direction.

I think most of the organizations will be back but a lot more specialized. I’m hoping that the DEO takes a page from the Supergirl show and specializes in extraterrestrials. SHADE is already the organization that focuses on the supernatural. ARGUS is the general meta human umbrella organization that works with the Justice League. Task Force X as an offshoot of ARGUS (though Task Force X is traditionally supposed to be off the books since they’re utilizing super villains). Spyral could possibly be the European meta human agency. While Checkmate could still be run by The United Nations.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I think most of the organizations will be back but a lot more specialized. I’m hoping that the DEO takes a page from the Supergirl show and specializes in extraterrestrials. SHADE is already the organization that focuses on the supernatural. ARGUS is the general meta human umbrella organization that works with the Justice League. Task Force X as an offshoot of ARGUS (though Task Force X is traditionally supposed to be off the books since they’re utilizing super villains). Spyral could possibly be the European meta human agency. While Checkmate could still be run by The United Nations.

They were already more specialized than say, Shield.

Shield's problem is that something is everything, it's nothing. Shield were spies, an army, UN spies (who are they spying on?), US spies, etc.

DC, IMO, was better in regards to spy stuff. Shade dealt with supernatural, DEO every day metahumans, etc. They had their own bosses, mythos, etc.

And hell, Kobra and the League of Assassins were barely alike.

Shaving everything down to one thing isn't a plus, it's an obvious minus

[Agent Z]

They were already more specialized than say, Shield.

Shield's problem is that something is everything, it's nothing. Shield were spies, an army, UN spies (who are they spying on?), US spies, etc.

DC, IMO, was better in regards to spy stuff. Shade dealt with supernatural, DEO every day metahumans, etc. They had their own bosses, mythos, etc.

And hell, Kobra and the League of Assassins were barely alike.

Shaving everything down to one thing isn't a plus, it's an obvious minus

Did DC ever have a military or spy organization that dealt with aliens?

Also what was the main difference between Kobra and the LOA?

[Frontier]

Did DC ever have a military or spy organization that dealt with aliens?

Also what was the main difference between Kobra and the LOA?

I think that's what the DEO developed into.

LoA are basically an assasination cult driven to save the ecosystem by wiping out humanity. Kobra is a terrorist organization that worships snakes.

[Robotman]

They were already more specialized than say, Shield.

Shield's problem is that something is everything, it's nothing. Shield were spies, an army, UN spies (who are they spying on?), US spies, etc.

DC, IMO, was better in regards to spy stuff. Shade dealt with supernatural, DEO every day metahumans, etc. They had their own bosses, mythos, etc.

And hell, Kobra and the League of Assassins were barely alike.

Shaving everything down to one thing isn't a plus, it's an obvious minus

that’s pretty much the problem which spawned this series. Bendis saw that there were multiple agencies all dealing with the same thing. There wasn’t much difference in ARGUS and the DEO’s MO. If the DEO deals mostly with extraterrestrial threats that would at least differentiate them.

[The Cool Thatguy]

that’s pretty much the problem which spawned this series. Bendis saw that there were multiple agencies all dealing with the same thing. There wasn’t much difference in ARGUS and the DEO’s MO. If the DEO deals mostly with extraterrestrial threats that would at least differentiate them.

Except that they didn't deal with the same thing. The DEO was DC's metahuman FBI (though I lost track in all the reboots of what they've been up to), Argus handled military threats, Shade supernatural, etc.

This event solves a non problem, it doesn't better define the organizations and depending on how it shakes out, could make the problem worse by replacing all of them with one.

In the past, Bendis has proven unable t handle spy stories, so I'm not hopeful as to how this will settle

[Agent Z]

that’s pretty much the problem which spawned this series. Bendis saw that there were multiple agencies all dealing with the same thing. There wasn’t much difference in ARGUS and the DEO’s MO. If the DEO deals mostly with extraterrestrial threats that would at least differentiate them.

According to Bendis, this was more a complaint coming from Didio than him (which is odd because so many of these new agencies sprung up during the New 52).

CBR: With Event Leviathan you've been exploring the intelligence agencies and clandestine underbelly of the DCU. Was this a story that you had been sitting on ever since you started writing for DC Comics?

Brian Michael Bendis: No, it actually first got pitched to me the first time I met [DC Comics Co-Publisher] Dan Didio. We didn't know each other at all -- even though we have hundreds of mutual friends -- we had never been the same room together so, when me coming over became very serious, he and I had a secret coffee and we immediately started talking story because we're both nerds.

https://www.cbr.com/interview-brian-...than-superman/

Except that they didn't deal with the same thing. The DEO was DC's metahuman FBI (though I lost track in all the reboots of what they've been up to), Argus handled military threats, Shade supernatural, etc.

This event solves a non problem, it doesn't better define the organizations and depending on how it shakes out, could make the problem worse by replacing all of them with one.

In the past, Bendis has proven unable t handle spy stories, so I'm not hopeful as to how this will settle

I think when it comes to spy stories in a shared superhero universe the best characters to use are either non-superheroes or superheroes to obscure (both in-universe and out) to draw the wrong type of attention. I read Bendis' Secret War for the first time and it's obvious the team Fury picked was based on characters Bendis liked rather than characters who would make sense for covert operations. Hill even asked how the hell Fury committed a terrorist act on foreign soil with a team of mostly recognizable superheroes without the media knowing about it and gets no answer (and neither does the audience by proxy).