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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I wonder what the deal is with all the fake Batman rumors and such (Batman was stabbed and shot in the neck?) Does Bendis just like showing this side of Batman's existence in the DCU as an urban legend or is there a Leviathan (or Talia) connection to the fake Batmen? (or is this a reference to something else going on in the Batbooks?)

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He's more of a hunter then a detective and even that's a bit of a stretch.
    Speaking of stretches, Elongated Man is the stretching detective, Bendis!!

    Using Plas interchangeably with Ralph is a pet peeve of mine but I've never seen it quite as blatant as calling a character that's never been a detective at all one of DC's greatest detectives, while the guy he's intentionally mistaking him absolutely is one of DC's greatest detectives.

    But that's the only thing I find problematic about Event Leviathan or Bendis at DC. I didn't read him at Marvel so I didn't have an opinion of him before recently and I've enjoyed everything he's done so far, especially the lead-up to this event. I'm all in.

  3. #18
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    Speaking of stretches, Elongated Man is the stretching detective, Bendis!!

    Using Plas interchangeably with Ralph is a pet peeve of mine but I've never seen it quite as blatant as calling a character that's never been a detective at all one of DC's greatest detectives, while the guy he's intentionally mistaking him absolutely is one of DC's greatest detectives.

    But that's the only thing I find problematic about Event Leviathan or Bendis at DC. I didn't read him at Marvel so I didn't have an opinion of him before recently and I've enjoyed everything he's done so far, especially the lead-up to this event. I'm all in.
    If they wanted Plas to become more detective like they really should team him up with Bats or Ralph for a mini or something. Characters need to grow and change but let's actually see that development rather than just say they are this now or can do *insert thing* now.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

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  4. #19
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by byrd156 View Post
    If they wanted Plas to become more detective like they really should team him up with Bats or Ralph for a mini or something. Characters need to grow and change but let's actually see that development rather than just say they are this now or can do *insert thing* now.
    I'd be cool with that and I don't disagree with you at all. I think it's a little worse than "insert thing now" though.

    It feels like Bendis actually feels like Plastic Man and Elongated Man are interchangeable. It's just weird given that this is the guy that brought back fan-favorite/C-list characters like Vic Sage and Kate Spencer back. Not to mention restoring long dormant Young Justice history/characters. So why not Ralph if he wants to tell a story about great DC detectives?

    Calling Plastic Man a great detective is almost like calling Guy Gardner or Ambush Bug a great detective. It's at odds with the character entirely except that he resembles a great DC detective in that he stretches for a living. It almost feels like he's trying to convince us Eel and Ralph are the same guy... Which, well, maybe they are somehow? I'd be okay with learning that Ralph Dibny was somehow under deep cover when he created the alter-ego of Plastic Man. It conflicts with a lot of past continuity but that doesn't really bother me. At least it would be a fresh take as opposed to pretending one can just assign one character's attributes to the other because they share the same power. Which, well, is I guess sort of what CW's The Flash did by making Ralph a lovable bad guy gone good.

    Why not make either or both genius level scientists that are married to Sue Storm while they're at it? Copyright law, I guess. Is Stretch Armstrong off the table? If not, maybe he can be one of DC's greatest detectives too.
    Last edited by BatmanJones; 05-24-2019 at 12:10 AM.

  5. #20
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I'd be cool with that and I don't disagree with you at all. I think it's a little worse than "insert thing now" though.

    It feels like Bendis actually feels like Plastic Man and Elongated Man are interchangeable. It's just weird given that this is the guy that brought back fan-favorite/C-list characters like Vic Sage and Kate Spencer back. Not to mention restoring long dormant Young Justice history/characters. So why not Ralph if he wants to tell a story about great DC detectives?

    Calling Plastic Man a great detective is almost like calling Guy Gardner or Ambush Bug a great detective. It's at odds with the character entirely except that he resembles a great DC detective in that he stretches for a living. It almost feels like he's trying to convince us Eel and Ralph are the same guy... Which, well, maybe they are somehow? I'd be okay with learning that Ralph Dibny was somehow under deep cover when he created the alter-ego of Plastic Man. It conflicts with a lot of past continuity but that doesn't really bother me. At least it would be a fresh take as opposed to pretending one can just assign one character's attributes to the other because they share the same power. Which, well, is I guess sort of what CW's The Flash did by making Ralph a lovable bad guy gone good.

    Why not make either or both genius level scientists that are married to Sue Storm while they're at it? Copyright law, I guess. Is Stretch Armstrong off the table? If not, maybe he can be one of DC's greatest detectives too.
    I feel that a lot of people at DC see most characters as interchangeable. Characters are just powers and designs, personalties and traits can be tacked on at whatever whim the writers/editors choose.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

  6. #21
    Spectacular Member Batknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raijin View Post
    I'm still trying to understand Ollie's role in this. According to Bendis, he's a detective. But he has never shown any real detecting skills.
    Personally, after reading Mike Grell's run I totally buy Ollie being classified as a detective. Maybe not 'Batman with a flashlight in his mouth searching through files' type of detective, but being an urban hunter/manhunter basically allows him to walk into a room, look around for a few moments, and know everything that's happened within, everything about the people that have been there, and exactly where they've gone and been to. He's an excellent information gatherer and has really sharp observational skills. Which lets him track people down and solve crimes. For example:

    https://imgur.com/ukjJ8XL
    https://imgur.com/NOgWRu4
    https://imgur.com/1BDSLh1
    Last edited by Batknight; 05-24-2019 at 07:22 AM.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Batknight View Post
    Personally, after reading Mike Grell's run I totally buy Ollie being classified as a detective. Maybe not 'Batman with a flashlight in his mouth searching through files' type of detective, but being an urban hunter/manhunter basically allows him to walk into a room, look around for a few moments, and know everything that's happened within, everything about the people that have been there, and exactly where they've gone and been to. He's an excellent information gatherer and has really sharp observational skills. Which lets him track people down and solve crimes. For example:

    https://imgur.com/ukjJ8XL
    https://imgur.com/NOgWRu4
    https://imgur.com/1BDSLh1
    I think being an urban hunter qualifies Green Arrow as a sort of detective, he's probably the best tracker in the DCU, for instance. Slotting in Plastic Man instead of Elongated Man as a detective is pure horse$#!* though. The main thing separating Plas from Ralph is that he's one of the DCU's best detectives.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    ...Calling Plastic Man a great detective is almost like calling Guy Gardner or Ambush Bug a great detective. It's at odds with the character entirely except that he resembles a great DC detective in that he stretches for a living. It almost feels like he's trying to convince us Eel and Ralph are the same guy...
    I took issue with Plas being included rather than Ralph as well in terms of "great detectives," but I would take a "wait and see" attitude regarding this for two reasons:
    -- Bendis acknowledges Ralph though he does so to take him off the table. It's not that he's not a great detective, it just seems that he's not going to be available.
    -- The teaser indicates why he might have chosen Plas over Ralph - because he had a rough and checkered past which might make him amenable to joining Leviathan's cause. This might be the real reason he's being used here and whomever wrote that Plas was being included in the roster of "greatest detectives" might have been an error from marketing. I don't think that was an in-story description.

  9. #24
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I guess my main issue with Plas is that they keep trying to fit him into scenarios where they really should've just used Elongated Man, like in the Scooby-Doo/Brave and the Bold movie with the detective club or making Ralph on The Flash TV show come off more like Eel O'Brien then Ralph Dibny.

  10. #25
    mutant and proud ermac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Was it the Question ? I thought it was Leviathan coming to recrut Guardian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I donít think it was The Question. It was Leviathan making Guardian the same offer heís apparently making Batgirl and Plas. But having the mysterious figure in the hospital does add Question to the list of possible suspects.
    That's what I got from the last page. It showed Question...
    My pull list: Action Comics - Avengers - Batman - East of West - Immortal Hulk - Runaways - Uncanny X-Men - WicDiv - X23

  11. #26
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Oh right. But I think the man near Question is Sam lane, since Guardian is back in his armor and looking angry on the same page.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Oh right. But I think the man near Question is Sam lane, since Guardian is back in his armor and looking angry on the same page.
    Yes - you can see his name on the IV bag.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    The earlier scene with Director Bones shows that Leviathan is using Spyral face changing/concealing tech.

    Mr. Minos from Spyral is supposedly dead, but this is comics and no one ever stays dead. Definitely could be him. Though I donít think the reveal would be as impactful.

  14. #29
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    The earlier scene with Director Bones shows that Leviathan is using Spyral face changing/concealing tech.

    Mr. Minos from Spyral is supposedly dead, but this is comics and no one ever stays dead. Definitely could be him. Though I don’t think the reveal would be as impactful.
    It WAS going to be Mr Minos, but it leaked online early, so now Leviathan is going to be Hawk......
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
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  15. #30
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    The theory posited elsewhere that Leviathan will turn out to be Kathy (not Kate) Kane is, I think, worthy of consideration.

    - Spymaster
    - Worked with the Bat-family, but definitely an outsider
    - Access to Spyral ("Spy"-ral... I just got that!) face-swirling tech
    - Leviathan's outfit would sufficiently hide a female form, in a classic "Mask of the Phantasm" kind of way.

    Also, I just plain like Kathy Kane

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