Event Leviathan discussion thread

[byrd156]

You have a strange definition of sarcasm. Using every opportunity to downgrade Jason is not sarcasm. I call that hate.
And I'm not going to argue with you about Jason's depiction since New52. I'm pretty sure there is nothing Jason could ever do so that his change would feel earned for you. Maybe dying a cruel death (again).
Hate Jason all you want, that's not my point. But your behavior here in the forum sucks. We all have our favorites and we all have characters that we don't like that much. But we all write in the same forum, so for the sake of harmony is it really too much to ask that you keep your little hate outbursts to a minimum?

Sarcasm and snark go hand in hand for me so I generally say one when I mean one or the other or both, generally both. I have pretty much nothing but apathy towards Jason's current depiction and a lot of characters right now so you can say I hate most things then lol. I'm not the one having an outburst. I haven't talked about Jason in any real detail in months outside of the whole Robins being placed in generic categories and him showing up in NTT. Again you avoided all my points and actual discussion just to attack me. It's cool if you want to do that but don't act like you're taking some high road or something. Go police your own posts, and I'll police mine.

Anyway back on topic, this whole thing spun out of the idea that Roy is Leviathan which is just some fan theory. Doesn't seem that concrete to me and just doesn't fit Roy. I could see Roy maybe punching or kicking the crap out of some of the people that caused his death (hero and/or villain alike) or were neglectful but I can't see him go full on super villain. He is smart enough to pull something like this off I will say that. Roy is the kinda guy who would immediately go get a drink or his favorite food after coming back from the dead before doing anything important. He's an abrasive guy with a heart of gold who will like to take care of himself if he has the time. Leviathan seems like too much work on Roy's already changed New 52/Rebirth version to be changed so much more again. DC does have the habit right now of just applying personalities to whomever they chose to fit whatever so I could be wrong. The guy I love reading about wouldn't do this ,just like Wally wouldn't kill himself, or Donna become a sometimes evil Xena knockoff alcoholic, etc. It seems like I don't know these characters anymore and that has me seriously worried for the future.

[Arsenal]

Bored called Jason defanged, that's what I've been complaining about the entire reboot. He's a downgraded Punisher who now follows whatever Batman says and hangs out with the bat-family. These things are completely at odds with the idea of how he was at his return and this change DOESN't FEEL EARNED.

I am sure fanboys are going to cry foul over this being a rehash of Red Hood, but considering how defanged Jason has become since his resurrection, it makes sense to put Roy in that role as a more villainous antihero.

Personally, I feel that the New 52 finally gave Jason some bite back after the vast majority of his pre-flashpoint post resurrection appearances failed to capitalize on any of the potential demonstrated in UTRH. But if you disagree, that's fine.

As if dead-but-not-really- dead Roy Harper or Jason Todd would make a better choice for Leviathan, given both characters current status quos it would be much easier to explain why Jason is leading Levianthan than it would be for Roy. Than again, it would be nice to see something as traumatic as dying than coming back to life having some actual impact on a character for once instead of being something that just happens with no long term impact.

[movieclub]

I am so excited for this!!

Getting a digital copy at midnight

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Personally, I feel that the New 52 finally gave Jason some bite back after the vast majority of his pre-flashpoint post resurrection appearances failed to capitalize on any of the potential demonstrated in UTRH. But if you disagree, that's fine.

As if dead-but-not-really- dead Roy Harper or Jason Todd would make a better choice for Leviathan, given both characters current status quos it would be much easier to explain why Jason is leading Levianthan than it would be for Roy. Than again, it would be nice to see something as traumatic as dying than coming back to life having some actual impact on a character for once instead of being something that just happens with no long term impact.

I would be fine if either Roy or Jason turned out to be Leviathan. From what I've seen of the character so far, he (or she) has an interesting point of view and is clearly a formidable character. I don't think fans of either character should be particularly upset by this development either since Bendis seems to have gone out of his way to show how Leviathan hasn't actually killed anyone, despite all the massive destruction. That would be a sign that Leviathan is going to be taking on the heroes over how clearly ineffectual their methods have been, rather than just being some moustache-twirling baddie bent on world domination.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I would be fine if either Roy or Jason turned out to be Leviathan. From what I've seen of the character so far, he (or she) has an interesting point of view and is clearly a formidable character. I don't think fans of either character should be particularly upset by this development either since Bendis seems to have gone out of his way to show how Leviathan hasn't actually killed anyone, despite all the massive destruction. That would be a sign that Leviathan is going to be taking on the heroes over how clearly ineffectual their methods have been, rather than just being some moustache-twirling baddie bent on world domination.

Ugh, God no.

I hate every villain who makes that point, because all they're doing is acting as a meta-mouth piece, making what is now a cliche observation about the genre.

Yes, Batman should have killed the Joker (and others). But since companies will never give up on their trademarks, he can't and won't. How about telling a story that doesn't needlessly lampshade the genre without ever providing a solution?

[Arsenal]

Ugh, God no.

I hate every villain who makes that point, because all they're doing is acting as a meta-mouth piece, making what is now a cliche observation about the genre.

Yes, Batman should have killed the Joker (and others). But since companies will never give up on their trademarks, he can't and won't. How about telling a story that doesn't needlessly lampshade the genre without ever providing a solution?

That could work if the Villain offers an alternative that can (theoretically) be done in Universe without the company losing any trademarks.

[byrd156]

Ugh, God no.

I hate every villain who makes that point, because all they're doing is acting as a meta-mouth piece, making what is now a cliche observation about the genre.

Yes, Batman should have killed the Joker (and others). But since companies will never give up on their trademarks, he can't and won't. How about telling a story that doesn't needlessly lampshade the genre without ever providing a solution?

Yeah this whole "subversion" of superheroes in comics thing has become more tropy than most generic hero saves girl kind of stories.

We get it, superheroes are goofy and don't make sense under a microscope. Move on already.

[Sergard]

Sarcasm and snark go hand in hand for me so I generally say one when I mean one or the other or both, generally both. I have pretty much nothing but apathy towards Jason's current depiction and a lot of characters right now so you can say I hate most things then lol. I'm not the one having an outburst. I haven't talked about Jason in any real detail in months outside of the whole Robins being placed in generic categories and him showing up in NTT. Again you avoided all my points and actual discussion just to attack me. It's cool if you want to do that but don't act like you're taking some high road or something. Go police your own posts, and I'll police mine.

Calling you out on your overly exaggerated biased behavior is "attacking" you? Fine, then feel attacked if it makes you feel better while I'm "taking the high road" by not posting "snarky" comments about characters I'm indifferent about every time possible. And as a matter of fact, there were no points to avoid to begin with. How you feel about Jason's characterization is your personal opinion - my own is obviously a completely different one. But again, that never was the topic.

I would be fine if either Roy or Jason turned out to be Leviathan. From what I've seen of the character so far, he (or she) has an interesting point of view and is clearly a formidable character. I don't think fans of either character should be particularly upset by this development either since Bendis seems to have gone out of his way to show how Leviathan hasn't actually killed anyone, despite all the massive destruction. That would be a sign that Leviathan is going to be taking on the heroes over how clearly ineffectual their methods have been, rather than just being some moustache-twirling baddie bent on world domination.

Somewhere in an interview Bendis stated that Leviathan would be a new villain. So I feel it would be kind of strange to use an already existing character (I mean, it would be nice if Roy could exist again but I'd rather like to see him as a spy in his own solo run. DC is developing its magical corner again, so why not also do the same for spies/secret agents?). Although I have to admit that I like the Kathy Kane theory. The question also arises what happens with Leviathan after the event ends. Jason has his own solo run - a solo run that will continue in 2020 - and own identity as Red Hood. A character with two big identities at the same time in one universe sounds like a lost potential.

Will Leviathan also get a solo run or be the main character of a new on-going? Or will Leviathan disappear again and only pop up from time to time as a villain in Superman and Justice League?

By the way, was it already explained somewhere why Leviathan is calling himself/herself Leviathan? It is a little bit confusing because Talia's organization is called Leviathan too. So everyone probably immediately thinks that there is a connection. Is there one?

[Darkcrusade25]

Leviathan seems to be chill tbh. I might actually continue reading it. The new issue definitely enforces the position that Leviathan isn't a copy paste of past villains.

[byrd156]

Calling you out on your overly exaggerated biased behavior is "attacking" you? Fine, then feel attacked if it makes you feel better while I'm "taking the high road" by not posting "snarky" comments about characters I'm indifferent about every time possible. And as a matter of fact, there were no points to avoid to begin with. How you feel about Jason's characterization is your personal opinion - my own is obviously a completely different one. But again, that never was the topic.



Somewhere in an interview Bendis stated that Leviathan would be a new villain. So I feel it would be kind of strange to use an already existing character (I mean, it would be nice if Roy could exist again but I'd rather like to see him as a spy in his own solo run. DC is developing its magical corner again, so why not also do the same for spies/secret agents?). Although I have to admit that I like the Kathy Kane theory. The question also arises what happens with Leviathan after the event ends. Jason has his own solo run - a solo run that will continue in 2020 - and own identity as Red Hood. A character with two big identities at the same time in one universe sounds like a lost potential.

Will Leviathan also get a solo run or be the main character of a new on-going? Or will Leviathan disappear again and only pop up from time to time as a villain in Superman and Justice League?

By the way, was it already explained somewhere why Leviathan is calling himself/herself Leviathan? It is a little bit confusing because Talia's organization is called Leviathan too. So everyone probably immediately thinks that there is a connection. Is there one?

I never insulted you or was even talking to you and you called me an *******. I'm not playing victim just stating what you did. It was unprompted and out of nowhere, what would you call it? Also why are you acting like being biased matters when talking about opinions? These aren't facts, these are feelings and interpretations of course I'm biased. Water is wet. I talk about directions I don't like all the time, literally all of my favorite characters are in terrible situations and I can't stand their characterizations and talk about it all time yet you only seem to notice when I post about Jason.

But you're right of course, I'm totally posting non-stop about Jason. That's why I'm always in his appreciation thread and every one he has in the Batman and DC Forums.

[Sergard]

I never insulted you or was even talking to you and you called me an *******. I'm not playing victim just stating what you did. It was unprompted and out of nowhere, what would you call it? Also why are you acting like being biased matters when talking about opinions? These aren't facts, these are feelings and interpretations of course I'm biased. Water is wet. I talk about directions I don't like all the time, literally all of my favorite characters are in terrible situations and I can't stand their characterizations and talk about it all time yet you only seem to notice when I post about Jason.

But you're right of course, I'm totally posting non-stop about Jason. That's why I'm always in his appreciation thread and every one he has in the Batman and DC Forums.

There is a difference between being an ******* and being an ******* about something.
There is also a difference between being unhappy how a favorite character is treated and beating a dead horse because a character you feel indifferent about exists and dares to be more than a plot device for others.

Putting a doesn't change that you completely ignore my point and try to downplay your own behavior.

[byrd156]

There is a difference between being an ******* and being an ******* about something.
There is also a difference between being unhappy how a favorite character is treated and beating a dead horse because a character you feel indifferent about exists and dares to be more than a plot device for others.

Putting a doesn't change that you completely ignore my point and try to downplay your own behavior.

You always push this idea that I want him to be a plot device, where are you getting this from?

I'm not downplaying anything, I addressed it already. You didn't like the response. I also use this a lot in my posts to convey the addressed snark earlier. You'll notice I used it in the post you are so up in arms about.

[Korath]

After reading Leviathan Rising, I'm so damn hyped for the whole event and the mystery surrounding Leviathan's identity. But now, I wonder if the Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen book will only happen in between Clark's being captured by Talia and the end of this book, or if it'll expand further than that.

[Sergard]

After reading Leviathan Rising, I'm so damn hyped for the whole event and the mystery surrounding Leviathan's identity. But now, I wonder if the Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen book will only happen in between Clark's being captured by Talia and the end of this book, or if it'll expand further than that.

So it's good? Now I can't decide if I want the digital or printed version.

[Korath]

Well...

spoilers:

I find Leviathan rather sympathetic, the Invisible Mafia is great here and there is a Jimmy Olsen/Dex-star Team up.

end of spoilers
It's a must buy.