Why isn't Bendis' run doing better, both critically and commercially?

[kingaliencracker]

On paper, it would seem that DC's coup of Brian Michael Bendis and his subsequent joining of the Superman titles would be an instant hit. He was, after all, one of Marvel's most successful writers in the 18 years prior to joining DC and his taking over Superman seemed like an interesting combination.

However, his run with the Superman titles thus far can best be described as divisive, and sales have been extraordinarily mundane. Now there's talk that he'll be taking over the Batman book at the end of the year, which would seemingly end his run with Superman (although that last bit is more speculation on my part, as I don't believe DC would have Bendis write both Superman AND Batman at the same time, although I could be wrong).

So putting aside the "because he sucks, that's why!" business that I'm sure this thread will attract, since regardless of how you feel personally about Bendis the fact remains he has been critically and commercially one of the best writer's in the industry, what exactly has gone wrong with his Superman run?

[Miles To Go]

So putting aside the "because he sucks, that's why!"

That's actually a large part regarding why this has went wrong. The people who have followed his work for years and been burned by it or burnt out on it in all this time geniually do think this and that word of mouth has carried over to where he is now. Bendis acknowledges he has a hatedom all the time, citing the likes of 4chan and other boards in interviews and even his stories (even as recently as this month's issue of Action Comics), so they feel empowered and encouraged

Bendis is not the same writer he was twenty years ago. He peaked way back in 2009-2010, some thought he wore out his welcome after he started on Avengers. I've been there for the best and worst of him over the years. His Superman work has been him at his best in a long time, but for many he still isn't quite peak Bendis, and his flaws are often placed far above his strengths.

Bendis is a nice guy who admits he went mad with creative freedom back in his Marvel days and is sorry for it, and I believe him, but some are going to carry that with them forever and inform how they reward his efforts.

[theoneandonly]

perhaps because his Superman isn't striking a chord with readers?(more polite than saying he sucks at writing Superman. )

[Blue22]

Bendis is, by no means, a bad writer. In fact I've always been kinda fond of his writing style even in stuff that I absolutely despise (*cough*HisX-MenRun*cough*). The man's got talent and he's made A LOT of positive contributions to superhero comics...but he also has a knack for coming up with ideas that sound good on paper but then he totally screws up on the execution.

Shaking up the Superfamily dynamic sounded like a good idea...but the ways he went about doing it... weren't all that great and have pretty much made me go back to not caring about Superman comics. Civil War II sounded like a good idea to coincide with the movie....but it ended up being another conflict that could only exist if both parties acted as dumb and unlikeable as humanly possible (big props for the borderline character assassination of Carol Danvers and the ACTUAL assassination of Rhodey and Bruce Banner). Bringing in younger versions of the original 5 X-Men was a neat idea...but between the awful handling of Iceman's coming out and his Jean Grey being totally unbearable, all he did was bring back five characters who sucked until they were written by people other than him (seriously. Young Jean went from being my least favorite comic character ever to one of my favorites once X-Men Blue started)

Bendis seems like a great guy who actually does care about the fans, and unlike other people in the industry (*cough"Didio*cough*), I don't get any malicious vibes from the decisions he makes, not even the worst things he does. I just...don't trust him to tackle anything that's not your average, street level hero. He has a niche that he does well in. But when he steps out of it....the results may vary.

[Kuwagaton]

The immediate thought is unfortunately, "he was Marvel's biggest name so what's wrong?" But that hasn't been the case in some time. The Marvel audience wasn't going to be making this jump with him. After his first year, the X titles (with very popular artists) fell from A to B tier sellers, and that was over five years ago. Dimishing returns on his frequent Marvel events for another thing. Basically, while I wouldn't say his voice isn't unique, it hasn't really been that fresh or surprising for the last 15 years. The initial curiosity of how he was going to approach Superman was apparently satisfied before he began with the two teasers. One in a comic that sold an estimated 400k.

He's a bit gunshy about controversy with Superman, and for one I am thankful. We'll see how this event works, but to move a B tier seller up or down a list you really need more fuel for the fire.

[Yoda]

The audience for Superman books really seems to be like 40K-50K for Superman and 35K-45K for Action. Events and relaunches move it up or down a bit, but it seems to revert to that mean.

Bendis is probably selling slightly better than average, and his books are performing pretty well for the market as a whole. Short of like Alan Moore coming on board for a 100 issue opus or Jim Lee taking over regular art duties I don't think the Superbooks get into the Bat-Tier regular monthly sales barring a major shift in the market.

[Sacred Knight]

The audience for Superman books really seems to be like 40K-50K for Superman and 35K-45K for Action. Events and relaunches move it up or down a bit, but it seems to revert to that mean.

Bendis is probably selling slightly better than average, and his books are performing pretty well for the market as a whole. Short of like Alan Moore coming on board for a 100 issue opus or Jim Lee taking over regular art duties I don't think the Superbooks get into the Bat-Tier regular monthly sales barring a major shift in the market.

This. This is just the reality. I don't know what or whom it would take at this point to make the character and his books break that ceiling in the longterm. Quite possibly nothing.

[kingaliencracker]

This. This is just the reality. I don't know what or whom it would take at this point to make the character and his books break that ceiling in the longterm. Quite possibly nothing.

I don't believe that one bit.

If Hulk can beat Batman in overall sales because of the amazing writing going on in that book, there's no reason the same can't apply to Superman.

[Yoda]

I don't believe that one bit.

If Hulk can beat Batman in overall sales because of the amazing writing going on in that book, there's no reason the same can't apply to Superman.

Hulk beat Batman because of speculation. Immoral Hulk is the speculator dream book at the moment. It's great, but it's not going to consistently beat Batman.

[DragonsChi]

I don't believe that one bit.

If Hulk can beat Batman in overall sales because of the amazing writing going on in that book, there's no reason the same can't apply to Superman.

I agree with you. There is no excuses, rhyme, or reason preventing a book to move past "normal" means of sale.

If you expect or shoot for average results that is all you will ever amount to.

[Vordan]

1. Bendis has not been the guy who wrote the acclaimed USM or Daredevil storyline sin a long time. His star power towards the end of his career was clearly on a downward trend, his books were solidly in the “mediocre” category, and even Miles fans have said the character needed fresh blood
2. While I never really loved Jurgens Action, and Tomasi shot himself in the foot with the summer of filler, people generally didn’t hate the Rebirth Superbooks, so there wasn’t a huge push to shake things up from readers
3. Aging up Jon was stupid and hasn’t really proven to be very interesting
4. Rogal is boring (although I love Red Cloud and the Invisible Mafia)
5. Bendis’ decompression coupled with the books no longer double shipping has a tendency to drag stuff out (this is mostly for Superman, Action has been fine imo)
6. Some of Bendis’ dialogue is bad and there have been a couple continuity errors editorial really should’ve caught
And like Sacred said, the Superman franchise has been rather weak for a while now. The post-Morrison New 52 Superbooks sucked and the Superbooks right before Morrison Action Comics generally sucked (except for Cornell Action) after New Krypton imploded.

I don't believe that one bit.

If Hulk can beat Batman in overall sales because of the amazing writing going on in that book, there's no reason the same can't apply to Superman.

Hulk was killed off, stayed dead for a couple years, and then his resurrection helped create interest. He came back in a relatively good Marvel event, Ewing shook up the book and character in a positive way, and Hulk was in a wildly successful movie that creates interest in him.

Superman was in the generally awful Snyder films which did nothing to endear him to the general public, Bendis is not as good a writer as Ewing and is far more controversial, and the reception to the Bendis shakeups has been mixed. I’d frankly let Bendis keep Action and put Loveness, Yang, Priest, or Seeley on the main Superman book. Someone DC wants to help push as their next big star like Ewing is right now for Marvel, because DC really needs to start cultivating some new star talent. Marvel has Cates, Ewing, Thompson, and Eve Ewing while DC has just ticked off their golden boy King, Snyder is planning on focusing more on creator work, Morrison and Johns are on the periphery, and they need to start building up their next gen.

[Vampire Savior]

This. This is just the reality. I don't know what or whom it would take at this point to make the character and his books break that ceiling in the longterm. Quite possibly nothing.

I don't want to sound like I'm oversimplifying things and not realistically taking a plethora of factors into consideration, but for a character like Superman, who everyone already knows and so many comics fans are at least willing to take a look at, it really is simple. You just need better comics. Superman did it before in the 90s when he had talent like Jurgens in his prime, Stern, Simonson, Grummett, Bogdanove, and Carlin working on him and telling captivating stories. There was a creative energy, drive, and collective mission there that was palpable. Reading Superman comics was fun, exciting, and gripping, and the stories were strong enough to remain that way every single week.

I believe it's simply a matter of getting people with strong talent and a strong vision that is appropriate for Superman who are on the same page working on the character. Superman won't break that middling threshold with bad to mediocre tepid comics, and storylines and concepts that are more controversial than they are interesting.

[superduperman]

I don't want to sound like I'm oversimplifying things and not realistically taking a plethora of factors into consideration, but for a character like Superman, who everyone already knows and so many comics fans are at least willing to take a look at, it really is simple. You just need better comics. Superman did it before in the 90s when he had talent like Jurgens in his prime, Stern, Simonson, Grummett, Bogdanove, and Carlin working on him and telling captivating stories. There was a creative energy, drive, and collective mission there that was palpable. Reading Superman comics was fun, exciting, and gripping, and the stories were strong enough to remain that way every single week.

I believe it's simply a matter of getting people with strong talent and a strong vision that is appropriate for Superman who are on the same page working on the character. Superman won't break that middling threshold with bad to mediocre tepid comics, and storylines and concepts that are more controversial than they are interesting.

This. I have my issues with the post-Crisis Superman but the one thing I can say positively about it was that there was at least a consistent vision. Today it just looks like management is fighting over what Superman should look like. And they've been at it for nearly 20 years now! I was one of the few people who liked New 52 and one of the reasons for that was that at least it was a clean break. Which Superman desperately needed. Either let one creator take over and rebuild the character from the ground up and STICK WITH THAT VISION or get a new management team in there who isn't just trying to turn Superman into their own personal fan fiction. Of which I believe both Johns and Didio are competing against each other to do. The most popular Superman book right now is the Wal-Mart book and that's not even canon! I don't think that's a coincidence. I think letting Bendis do whatever he wanted was a Hail-Mary play. They don't know what else to do so they pass it off to someone else and hope they can clean up the mess. So far, it's a mixed bag.

Now I feel I should throw in some quantifiers here. I didn't agree with getting rid of the New 52. And this is still a sore spot for me. I haven't quite forgiven DC over this yet. Though I understand why they did it. Even if I think the way they went about it sucked. So this is most likely affecting my judgement. And I don't necessarily agree with the idea of him being a dad. Though on the whole it's not a deal breaker for me depending on how it's handled. I prefer the Chris Kent method where if he's going to exist, he should more or less stay out of Superman's way most of the time. ALL THAT HAVING BEEN SAID: Rogol Zaar is a dull villain. He's an Image character from the 1990s dropped into the Superbooks. He's not intimidating. He's not interesting personality wise. And his story arc, in as much as there is one, isn't going anywhere. Bringing back Jor-El was just stupid. Especially since we don't even know which version of Jor-El this is. We don't even know what Superman's current origin is. So it's not like there is any kind of emotional attachment here anyway. We're supposed to be shocked that a version of Jor-El we've never seen before has come back from the dead? Um...okay.

Bendis speak IS annoying. Sorry but it is. It was annoying at Marvel, it's annoying here. DC invested a lot in this guy and it doesn't look like they're getting a return on that investment. Jon was at least a halfway interesting character when he was ten. Aging him up served no purpose. Especially now that Conner is back. DC doesn't need yet another teen hero. I have a feeling this will eventually get reversed. If not by Bendis then by whoever comes after him. On the whole I think this was a bad investment. I think they should have tried to get someone who would clean things up and give them free reign to do whatever they wanted. But I also don't trust current management to know how to make a good call in that regard either. If said creator made a bad decision, would the current management know it? I was seriously looking at getting the upcoming Lois book but not if it's just gonna be a crossover book with every other book out there.

[Digifiend]

The audience for Superman books really seems to be like 40K-50K for Superman and 35K-45K for Action. Events and relaunches move it up or down a bit, but it seems to revert to that mean.

Bendis is probably selling slightly better than average, and his books are performing pretty well for the market as a whole. Short of like Alan Moore coming on board for a 100 issue opus or Jim Lee taking over regular art duties I don't think the Superbooks get into the Bat-Tier regular monthly sales barring a major shift in the market.

Yeah, Jurgens and Tomasi were selling just as many copies weren't they - and twice as often. That's a net loss for DC.

[Yoda]

Yeah, Jurgens and Tomasi were selling just as many copies weren't they - and twice as often. That's a net loss for DC.

Double shipping probably was doing more harm than good for Superman. All the fill ins were hurting sales and killing momentum on the book narratively. By the end of their run Superman was in the low 40's. If they had switched it back to monthly it might have helped keep it more stable.

But they weren't pulled for sales reasons as far as we know. Though there was apparently a planned shakeup in the works regardless with Lois leaving the books for a bit. They were pulled because Bendis asked for the books, they weren't offered to him. And it did bump sales for the last year. Superman right now is selling better than it was at the tail end of their run. Action isn't, mainly because the end of Jurgens run had the lenticular covers and then the Action 1000 hype.