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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Superman’s lost about 63% of its units sold over the first 9 issues, going from 133K to about 49K Superman. It’s been pretty stable the last three months. Rebirth lost a little over 50% going from 105K to about 50K, and lost like 68% over the run, finishing in the low 40’s.

    Bendis’s Action has only lost about 46% over its run. Jurgens Action is tough to compare because of the lenticulars and the buzz leading into Action 1000 definitely gave it a boost. At the end of Jurgens first year he was selling about the same more or less as Bendis is now.

    Rebirth, which I liked, was not that different than Bendis’ numbers at all. And Bendis’ Superman is in a softer market than Rebirth was. So you cannot say that it’s some massive failure compared to Rebirth because it just isn’t. Morrison’s green Lantern has lost more faster than Superman under Bendis and the drops in Bendis’ sales are pretty consistent with the market. Really popular and well performing books like Venom do better, but Amazing Spider-Man and Batman are selling comparably.

    Bendis has had a solid, but not spectacular run on Superman. It is actually charting better than Rebirth somewhat, so in relation to the market Superman is probably outperforming his average sales. Which are again in that 40-50K range.

    I’ve never said Rebirth wasn’t popular or sold well. I liked it a lot. I just don’t buy into this idea that Bendis is some failure because he’s isn’t hitting these imagined sales goals BC or some youtuber make up.
    Don't think anyone is accusing you of not liking Rebirth, dude, or saying that it didn't sell well. I just don't agree with some of the points you've made.
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  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    It all depends on why DC wanted Bendis to come over. If it was just hes a superstar, lets get him over to sell 100k issues of Superman! then yeah hes probably failed. But Bendis has other positives beyond sales, he got Fraction and Rucka writing Superbooks, he got Walker working on Naomi with him after Walker left on bad terms with DC, he got Marquez over to DC drawing Batman/Superman, he got Maleev drawing Tec 1000 and Event Leviathan, hell probably get Pinaccili over too once her contract with Marvel is up. He and Hickman are buds, and since DC utterly botched a chance to get Hickman over the first time, maybe once hes done with X-Men Bendis can get him over to DC. Hes culling all the spy organizations DC has which is something editorial wants done (probably so DC can have their SHIELD), so hes willing to take up editorial mandates.

    I would love to know for certain myself how they feel about Bendis, but if theyre actually planning to put him on Batman they must still have some degree of faith in him.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    A good writer would have gotten rid of a badly received character a long time ago. Rogol should have been banished to the deepest depths of space months ago. Oh well.

    I still like the art; which is 75% of my enjoyment

    Also remember, bendis had spiderman and Wolverine join his Avengers, Marvel’s biggest solo character

    Which critics have (websites) blasted his run?

  4. #49
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Miller View Post
    A good writer would have gotten rid of a badly received character a long time ago. Rogol should have been banished to the deepest depths of space months ago. Oh well.

    I still like the art; which is 75% of my enjoyment

    Also remember, bendis had spiderman and Wolverine join his Avengers, Marvel’s biggest solo character

    Which critics have (websites) blasted his run?
    His work isn't popular in the DC Comics subreddit thanks in no small part to the Jon Kent situation.

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    His work isn't popular in the DC Comics subreddit thanks in no small part to the Jon Kent situation.
    Yeah, thanks for that. Jon was quite popular.

    For the record, i think its been a solid run. My main complaint is the two separate books; with separate storylines, giving a disjointed experience, like Rucka telling a different story every other issue in WW, a really dumb way to publish comics.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Miller View Post
    Yeah, thanks for that. Jon was quite popular.

    For the record, i think its been a solid run. My main complaint is the two separate books; with separate storylines, giving a disjointed experience, like Rucka telling a different story every other issue in WW, a really dumb way to publish comics.
    I’ve seen this complaint before and I’ve never quite understood it. The only time all the Superbooks were about the same storyline was during the triangle era. Otherwise there’s the “main” book and then the side book that runs parallel to the main book and may or may not tie into what the main book is doing. Like in Tom King’s Tec Batman just got jumped by Bane whereas Tomasi’s Tec just is completely ignoring that with his Arkham Knight plot. Is it because Bendis is writing both books that people expecte dthe storylines to be easier to place chronologically?

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    So let's confirm the thesis

    23 25 Superman 10 $3.99 04/10/19 DC 48,802
    30 31 Action Comics 1010 $3.99 04/24/19 DC 42,317



    2 2 Symbiote Spider-Man 1 $4.99 04/10/19 Marvel 165,841
    3 3 Batman Who Laughs 4 $4.99 04/10/19 DC 103,645
    4 7 Immortal Hulk 16 $3.99 04/03/19 Marvel 90,305
    5 8 Batman 69 $3.99 04/17/19 DC 88,666
    10 11 Amazing Spider-Man 20 $3.99 04/24/19 Marvel 76,903
    18 20 Venom 13 $3.99 04/24/19 Marvel 52,114
    21 23 Fantastic Four 9 $3.99 04/24/19 Marvel 51,074
    22 24 Green Lantern 6 $3.99 04/03/19 DC 49,256

    Commercial Superman book are fine numbers among the best selling comics. I haven't seen anything super critical of Bendis run so I don't know what to say about that part.Simple put to me it seems people expect books to always sell like they have in past. I see it from X-men fans as well they murder the sales numbers when the reality the book is among the best selling books just lower top 25 just not a top anymore. I guess the real question is why doesn't Bendis doesn't superman on the upper half of top 25 books. The answer could be two things

    A. Bendis is the wrong writer for Superman
    B. Superman does not appeal to fans as much other style of characters

  8. #53
    Fantastic Member Gurz's Avatar
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    Superman generally doesn't sell, he is a has been of golden age. Sorry but these are cold facts.
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  9. #54
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Superman generally doesn't sell, he is a has been of golden age. Sorry but these are cold facts.
    Actually, that would be your opinion, which isn't factual at all. Superman is the #25 best selling comic of April 2019, close to 81 years after he was created. Which is one heck of a feat considering his company only occasionally has the slightest clue what to do with him. And as I said before on this thread - when comics weren't just being pushed to the "comics crowd," he sold even better.

    So that "has-been" is selling better than the vast majority of "hot new" comics and characters. Or conversely...by the above logic, I guess we're throwing Green Lantern, X-Men, Spider-Man, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Nightwing, and Deadpool in the has-been pile, too?
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  10. #55
    Fantastic Member Gurz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Actually, that would be your opinion, which isn't factual at all. Superman is the #25 best selling comic of April 2019, close to 81 years after he was created. Which is one heck of a feat considering his company only occasionally has the slightest clue what to do with him. And as I said before on this thread - when comics weren't just being pushed to the "comics crowd," he sold even better.

    So that "has-been" is selling better than the vast majority of "hot new" comics and characters. Or conversely...by the above logic, I guess we're throwing Green Lantern, X-Men, Spider-Man, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Nightwing, and Deadpool in the has-been pile, too?
    If other titles had Bendis, They would be on top 10. I mean Bendis on Nightwing would be dream come true... So far Bendis tries to pull Batman crowd with leviathan and stuff... But i don't know, i wait for an omnibus for example.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    If other titles had Bendis, They would be on top 10. I mean Bendis on Nightwing would be dream come true... So far Bendis tries to pull Batman crowd with leviathan and stuff... But i don't know, i wait for an omnibus for example.
    I highly doubt it. As much as I like Bendis on Superman I don't think he'd do better with other titles. He sadly doesn't command as great an audience as when he was in his prime.

  12. #57
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    I think it's more of a Superman problem then a Bendis problem. If sales were significantly below the 40,000-50,000 average Superman comics tend to be at,then I could say,yeah,it's all Bendis,but sales are pretty consistent not only with the general sales of the teams just prior,but during the New 52 after Morrison's run ended and before Truth sent sales through the toilet. Superman will probably never crack 70,000+ in sales consistently again. Yeah with events and specials things will spike, but it's just the nature of the business and Superman's place in the market and DC Comics. I personally have found most of Bendis' run enjoyable,but I do understand why some dislike it.
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  13. #58
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    I'm currently liking the books - Action way more than Superman just based on the subject matter - but I still think Superman just tends to be a hard sell, no matter what current in-continuity canon he's got going on - "brash young dude" or "yeah, I'm a dad" Superman. And you can't win with it ... you redesign him and everyone freaks. You don't redesign him and everyone freaks. You don't serve Lois well enough and everyone freaks (rightly so, though). So on.

    Bendis has Ivan freakin' Reis of all people on the main book but it's not doing Lantern Legendary as a run so far. Maybe the title is just waiting for a big plot point to hit and really move it into the eyes of the fandom more. So far it's "Neat" and "pretty okay" but not exactly rocking the house as required reading.
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  14. #59
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    If other titles had Bendis, They would be on top 10. I mean Bendis on Nightwing would be dream come true... So far Bendis tries to pull Batman crowd with leviathan and stuff... But i don't know, i wait for an omnibus for example.
    If they had fresh off his Ultimate Spider-Man or Daredevil Bendis maybe. But modern Bendis? I doubt it. It will be very interesting to see how Bendis Batman actually sells (no clue if he actually will get the title but he seems to be the top candidate).

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I think it's more of a Superman problem then a Bendis problem. If sales were significantly below the 40,000-50,000 average Superman comics tend to be at,then I could say,yeah,it's all Bendis,but sales are pretty consistent not only with the general sales of the teams just prior,but during the New 52 after Morrison's run ended and before Truth sent sales through the toilet. Superman will probably never crack 70,000+ in sales consistently again. Yeah with events and specials things will spike, but it's just the nature of the business and Superman's place in the market and DC Comics. I personally have found most of Bendis' run enjoyable,but I do understand why some dislike it.
    This is the sad truth. DC and WB have been mismanaging the IP for a long time and sales have bottomed out around 40-50k with some variance.

    Bendis is doing just fine on Superman.

    As for Superman being a has-been of the golden and, that's an opinion. Not a fact. Given your signature and noted favorites of Batman/Wolverine/The Darkness/Bloodshot, I can see why you would find him unappealing and that's okay. No character or concept has universal appeal.

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