Why isn't Bendis' run doing better, both critically and commercially?

[Talon1load]

You do have me looking forward to reading more though.

[JAK]

You know, Im actually kinda glad that Bendis is doing it the way he is. This way, you know you're getting the "side" of Superman that you prefer depending on which book you read. If you're into the crazy Morrison style cosmic stuff, you've got Superman. If you're into the Metropolis-focused triangle era style stuff, you've got Action. If, like me, you enjoy both, you've got twice as much Superman to read about each month. And I feel that between the two books we've got a really solid representation of the character.

I can definitely see the appeal behind triangle era 2.0 though. I had only just started reading back then and man, I did not know how good I had it! Even if a lot of the post-Crisis trappings aren't my cup of tea that era was one of the highlights of Super-history.

That's a good point, actually, it is nice to get both. And agreed on not knowing how good we had it! It absolutely spoiled me rotten when it comes to how quickly books come out. lol

Someday, I'll make it there. But debates in person? Oh gods, no! I get way too animated when I'm talking about something I'm passionate about; people think I'm angry or upset and I'm just really into the conversation. No, I wouldn't put you through that!

lol! Hey, animated is ok! But I put "debates" in quotations because they're rarely heated. Think of it as a huge, crazy-detailed deep dive intellectual discussion. Only time things get heated is when Snyder is brought up, lol - but we talk from about midnight until 5am, several days in a row. Seriously, it's amazing, and I think you'd love it. Plus, the Metro group is like family; you go once, you'll want the reunion every year. lol

One example: discussing the New52 suit. I said I didn't like the collar because it looked too authoritarian. Someone said they had a different reaction because they thought it looked scholarly. I was impressed by that, as it never occurred to me before. That's my favorite kind of discussion.

I.....think.....I read something about Bendis saying that the Phantom Zone has never really had a singular version, even within continuities. The closest you probably come is the writers who rip off Donner. Anyway, I **think** I read that Bendis figured since there wasn't a solidified version of the Zone he felt he had the freedom to put his own spin on it.

But take this with a giant grain of salt. I could be thinking of something else or imagining the whole thing.

I remember that, too, actually - so I think it's accurate. Does kinda kill Jurgens's reasoning why Superman took Cyborg Superman out of there, though. More thoughts on that below.

From everything I’ve read over the last few decades, the Phantom Zone has been pretty consistently portrayed as a place where the prisoners are “phantoms” and there’s no being poisoned because of whatever reasons Bendis came up with. Also, people couldn’t harm each other, that’s why Mon El wasn’t destroyed while stuck in there with Zod and the other prisoners. So, if Bendis did say that, it doesn’t make any sense. If he didn’t , then it still doesn’t make any sense. I’m all for writers trying new things but I’m also a fan of them respecting what came before. Sorry, not trying to argue just trying to make sense of things in my head and typing it out in here.

Well, they could end up pulling a "Johns" with the Zone and say that something else affects it's properties, or that there are different parts to it and the technology is imperfect enough that they can't always see/be sent to the same one every time. Wouldn't be a perfect explanation, but it might work in a kinda-sorta way.

[Ascended]

From everything I’ve read over the last few decades, the Phantom Zone has been pretty consistently portrayed as a place where the prisoners are “phantoms” and there’s no being poisoned because of whatever reasons Bendis came up with. Also, people couldn’t harm each other, that’s why Mon El wasn’t destroyed while stuck in there with Zod and the other prisoners. So, if Bendis did say that, it doesn’t make any sense. If he didn’t , then it still doesn’t make any sense. I’m all for writers trying new things but I’m also a fan of them respecting what came before. Sorry, not trying to argue just trying to make sense of things in my head and typing it out in here.
As for the Barry thing, I don’t know why they do that but many writers do. I think it’s that Wally is the one most are familiar with due to his comic and media presence over the last 20 years or so. He’s kind of their go to Flash. To me, he’s also the more interesting Flash so that, in my mind, plays into it as well.
Anyway, does Bendis do a better job of explaining Rogol Zar’s motivation eventually?

Oh, no worries. I'm just the messenger here. Im not sure how I feel about Bendis' take on the Zone, but for me it's fairly easy to hand-wave. The Zone is a strange other-dimension where the innate properties are vastly different. Who's to say the Zone is a uniform place all the way through? I mean, we've found galaxies in the real universe so big they break every rule of physics we think we know. Maybe there are parts of the Zone that behave differently too? Maybe where the story is taking place is some kind of......"tangibility sea?" In any case I feel like no one has done enough with the Zone to make me really invest in it, so I dont really care too much when writers contradict each other on it. Id rather they didnt, but it doesnt piss me off or anything.

With Wally, I agree with you, and I also think part of it is that Wally, being something of an extrovert, is easier and more fun to write than classic Barry, who was more of a shy introverted type of guy (not like, cripplingly so, but he didn't quite have Wally's sass either).

As for Zaar......no, not yet. He did get his first interesting character moment recently with Zod, but Bendis has yet to really get into Zaar's story. I **think** that's supposed to be coming in this next story arc.

[Ascended]

It absolutely spoiled me rotten when it comes to how quickly books come out. lol

Ah, the good old days.

lol! Hey, animated is ok! But I put "debates" in quotations because they're rarely heated. Think of it as a huge, crazy-detailed deep dive intellectual discussion. Only time things get heated is when Snyder is brought up, lol - but we talk from about midnight until 5am, several days in a row. Seriously, it's amazing, and I think you'd love it. Plus, the Metro group is like family; you go once, you'll want the reunion every year. lol

One example: discussing the New52 suit. I said I didn't like the collar because it looked too authoritarian. Someone said they had a different reaction because they thought it looked scholarly. I was impressed by that, as it never occurred to me before. That's my favorite kind of discussion.

Ha! Oh, Ive no doubt I'd love it. And I'd be making my point, waving my arms around like an idiot.

Well, they could end up pulling a "Johns" with the Zone and say that something else affects it's properties, or that there are different parts to it and the technology is imperfect enough that they can't always see/be sent to the same one every time. Wouldn't be a perfect explanation, but it might work in a kinda-sorta way.

I really want to see a writer come in and dig into the Zone. I feel like almost every writer uses it, but no one has really come in and built that corner of the mythos up since the Silver Age. We've just been looking at the tip of the ice berg and I feel like its past time someone came in and mapped the whole damn thing. Spend twelve issues with Clark lost in the Zone, exploring and uncovering its secrets, yknow? Same goes for the 5th dimension and Almerac too, but that's another thread.

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

We really dont know how good it is sales wise. SUPERMAN and Action Comics for the first time are Comixology number 1 sellers under bendis. The tpb arent out to see if Bendis ''writing for the trade '' mentality has affected trade sales.

Anyway. He does more than fine without the help of a succesful linewide banner like rebirth and without the bump of a Major New supporting character like Jon was.
And under his Pen Superman stays in the same position he always occupied in the charts.

As for critical acclaim, he does fairly well, Superman hasnt been this stable for a while. Tomasi and Gleason while i loves their run, their second year was excrutiating.

I am also a firm believer that double shipping can sink or make a good Book depending on its quality. Because it can keep the hype up, if it is good or bring a bad Book down if the story is awful.

As for me, i like Bendis. His voice for Supes is amazing. Absolutely excellent. And thats what I first look in the Book. His story in Superman is a bit thin in plot. But i hope it will pick up.

[JAK]

Ah, the good old days.

lol...I know, right?

Ha! Oh, Ive no doubt I'd love it. And I'd be making my point, waving my arms around like an idiot.

It's all good. But after a full day of doing things, we're just exhausted enough that it might be harder to do than it seems... though I can still find the energy if the topic is right, lol

I really want to see a writer come in and dig into the Zone. I feel like almost every writer uses it, but no one has really come in and built that corner of the mythos up since the Silver Age. We've just been looking at the tip of the ice berg and I feel like its past time someone came in and mapped the whole damn thing. Spend twelve issues with Clark lost in the Zone, exploring and uncovering its secrets, yknow? Same goes for the 5th dimension and Almerac too, but that's another thread.

Absolutely! It's amazing how long those elements have been around, and nobody's really done a deep dive yet. Having him on a "fact finding" mission in there would be kinda cool in a "neo-Silver Age" way.

We really dont know how good it is sales wise. SUPERMAN and Action Comics for the first time are Comixology number 1 sellers under bendis. The tpb arent out to see if Bendis ''writing for the trade '' mentality has affected trade sales.

Anyway. He does more than fine without the help of a succesful linewide banner like rebirth and without the bump of a Major New supporting character like Jon was.
And under his Pen Superman stays in the same position he always occupied in the charts.

As for critical acclaim, he does fairly well, Superman hasnt been this stable for a while. Tomasi and Gleason while i loves their run, their second year was excrutiating.

I am also a firm believer that double shipping can sink or make a good Book depending on its quality. Because it can keep the hype up, if it is good or bring a bad Book down if the story is awful.

As for me, i like Bendis. His voice for Supes is amazing. Absolutely excellent. And thats what I first look in the Book. His story in Superman is a bit thin in plot. But i hope it will pick up.

True. But if a story is awful, it's also done sooner (hopefully), lol

Weren't the double-shipping books selling roughly the same numbers? So that's twice the expense, but also twice the sales.

But yeah, Bendis is fine - he's just not seeming to do quite the numbers more that I was expecting with all the hype they gave him. That said, I like his voice, and as long as the rest of the cast keeps improving under his watch... I'm good with him being on the books for awhile.

I'd still like to see Jon back to being 10 eventually, but since I read these from Superman's perspective (in a reader-placement kinda way), it's an interesting allegory for a parent wanting their kids to be young again and feeling like it went by so fast that they missed it. So that's interesting from a thought-experiment direction, even if I still disagree with the decision in the long run.

[Ascended]

It's all good. But after a full day of doing things, we're just exhausted enough that it might be harder to do than it seems... though I can still find the energy if the topic is right, lol

Eh, its Superman. I could get excited talking about this character after a sixteen hour shift from hell and a all-nighter dealing with my sick kids.

Absolutely! It's amazing how long those elements have been around, and nobody's really done a deep dive yet. Having him on a "fact finding" mission in there would be kinda cool in a "neo-Silver Age" way.

Exactly! It could be amazing!! I actually have half an idea in my head for how I'd expand on Almerac....starting with the wedding of Maxima and Vartox!

Neo-Silver Age at its most beautifully ridiculous and fun.

[JAK]

Eh, its Superman. I could get excited talking about this character after a sixteen hour shift from hell and a all-nighter dealing with my sick kids.

Hmm.. true. Metro gets pretty hot and these talks are generally outdoors at night, so it's different. Plus, most of us go out of our way not to flare up any potential tensions - and the few that don't have the skill don't often join the conversation for long (they get bored easily, lol)

Exactly! It could be amazing!! I actually have half an idea in my head for how I'd expand on Almerac....starting with the wedding of Maxima and Vartox!

Neo-Silver Age at its most beautifully ridiculous and fun.

Well, my Golden Age idea was born from these long talks - maybe we'll have to write all these and make it either an indie comic series or a movie! hehe

And agreed. As I get older, my taste for the ridiculous has grown by leaps and bounds.