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  1. #46
    Incredible Member davetvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Decoy View Post
    Creed has jobbed to, by my recollection
    Iron Fist
    Wolverine (often)
    Jean Grey (twice, once when he was still susceptible to telepaths, then again when he was on the run following his escape.....both times Logan wasn’t around.....both times Creed didn’t even get past the TK field)
    Cyclops (took a tight angled Optic Blast to the forehead)
    Gambit

    I’m sure there are more......but Wolverine and Iron Fist are his two most well known classic foes
    Losing to Jean Grey is not jobbing. There are few powers (that aren't also psionic) that can effectively combat telekinesis.

  2. #47
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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  3. #48
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    I think too many writers don't know how to handle a character that's intelligent, but enjoys the simple things. Sabretooth isn't an idiot by any stretch of the imagination, but he knows what he likes. And what he likes is fighting, killing, and beer. The guy is a sadistic bully, knows it, and takes great pleasure in being that way.

    Another thing is Sabretooth shouldn't just show up on a team, fight somebody, and leave. When Sabretooth shows up, people die. I'm not saying kill off members of the X-men, but he's the kind of guy that's going to make his presence known by gutting that nice stranger that just bought Wolverine a drink in the bar and then draping his body across Logan's bike.

    I think Sabretooth should branch out a bit more as well. Don't just have him go after Wolverine. Have him show up X-23 and Daken. If they're going to take after their own man, Creed needs to treat them like he does Logan. I wouldn't mind Sabretooth going after Archangel, Boom Boom, and Psylocke more either. he's already shwon he can get under their skin. It seems like he'd enjoy bringing back painful memories.

  4. #49
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    By now, Logan is so over Creed. Both in giving a $&@%! and being able to beat him.

    Just have 616 Creed be an influence on Wildchild. Let him bring up his relationship to Monet, so they bang again.

    Have him admit that Logan is better than him but have Creed move on to other things or just have Creed admit hes jealous of what Logan has accomplished.

    Right now hes exactly where he was in the 90s, a prisoner of the X-men.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    By now, Logan is so over Creed. Both in giving a $&@%! and being able to beat him.

    Just have 616 Creed be an influence on Wildchild. Let him bring up his relationship to Monet, so they bang again.

    Have him admit that Logan is better than him but have Creed move on to other things or just have Creed admit he’s jealous of what Logan has accomplished.

    Right now he’s exactly where he was in the 90s, a prisoner of the X-men.
    Except in the 90's he was dangerous, so being a prisoner made sense.

    Nowadays he's a jobber (the Kane of Marvel) and is of no danger to any mutant, yet receives worse punishments than villains who are.

    And if Hickman is anything to go by, it's not changing.

    But otherwise, I agree. Creed's time as Logan's nemesis is played out. The supposed rivalry adds nothing to either character anymore. Move them away from each other. After all, Creed was an Iron Fist villain. If Claremont was as afraid of change as the X-Office seems to be now, he'd still be over there. Then again, maybe he'd be doing better there looking at where he currently is and has been for the bulk of 17 years.

    Despite the poor, convoluted, execution, he is where he needs to be right now. Put to rest. And he need never be used or brought up again until someone has decided to actually fix & make effort with him.
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 05-07-2020 at 12:19 AM.

  6. #51
    Spectacular Member FreshGuy's Avatar
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    He was amazing in Weapon X, I really enjoyed that run.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    Losing to Jean Grey is not jobbing.
    This is truth. The list of people Jean can take to the woodshed is long and distinguished, and it's no shame for Creed to be #6238 on it.

  8. #53
    Amazing Member WildR's Avatar
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    Can't believe it's been 1 year since the thread possted lol, and it's gonna be also 1 year since Sabretooth got off-panel except his illusion in the new Wolverine solobook.

    I think the editorial problem with him is more apparent as the DOX goes with almost all of x-herose/villains/anti-heroes, gaining both commercial and critical acclaims:

    1. He dosen't have any writer who's willing to treat him seriously or build him with thoughtful idea at present. But perhaps it's because Hickman just has special plans for him.

    2. His original characteristics, at least many of them, are not that suitable for today's editorial circumstance, as a result most writers using him for the last 20 years have reduced his threatening characteristics, which made him a jobber most of the time.

    3. Chances to explore his interesting characteristics have been wasted or cancelled. His AXIS-goodthooth career made him gain hightlights in his 21 century history but sadly Marvel finally decided this version of him was not needed, or just hsn't receive enough supports from readers or editors. JDW once listed AOA Sabretooth as his favorite character who's better than his/her prime version. Tieri's session in the early '00s seemed to work for him, making him a vicious villain fitting morden world but it was just short.
    Last edited by WildR; 05-06-2020 at 06:06 PM.

  9. #54
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I find it strange that they banished him to the bowels of Krakoa rather than take the opportunity to kill him, and bring him back altered. After all, Hickman plants some pretty big seeds that should be followed up on in those info pages regarding the ability to bring people back via The Resurrection Protocols at different ages, and/or with certain edits. Creed would be a prime candidate for this.

    So would OG Cable actually, at least IMO. Once the Kid Cable abomination is gone back to his time, they could bring the real Nathan back but in his prime (thinking 35-40 as opposed to a skinny teen) and without his T-O virus. That could be interesting. Of course, at full power his TK/TP slowly kills him too. So the T-O virus almost acts as a regulator for his natural god-mode psychic powers. So they’d have to solve for that too. I’ve got some ideas there which would be interesting.

  10. #55
    Mighty Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I find it strange that they banished him to the bowels of Krakoa rather than take the opportunity to kill him, and bring him back altered. After all, Hickman plants some pretty big seeds that should be followed up on in those info pages regarding the ability to bring people back via The Resurrection Protocols at different ages, and/or with certain edits. Creed would be a prime candidate for this.

    So would OG Cable actually, at least IMO. Once the Kid Cable abomination is gone back to his time, they could bring the real Nathan back but in his prime (thinking 35-40 as opposed to a skinny teen) and without his T-O virus. That could be interesting. Of course, at full power his TK/TP slowly kills him too. So the T-O virus almost acts as a regulator for his natural god-mode psychic powers. So they’d have to solve for that too. I’ve got some ideas there which would be interesting.
    I think Creed can be a great character. I like him as smart, complex, manipulative, and dangerous. He should never be portrayed as dumb or a bumbler. If anyone needs some attention it is this character.

    It is odd that the mutants are against prisons saying they will not exist on the island, but yet they sort of do since they can banish people inside the island as they did with Creed. it is effectively sort of a prison. They gave up on rehabilitation due to his history but as you pointed out why not create a new Creed? Can he get another chance and a new lease on life? But I guess they couldn't do that because it would mean they would have to kill him first to resurrect him and Xavier wouldn't be a part of that (but Apocalypse, Sinister, and perhaps others would be open to it).

    Hopefully he gets used in the future and writer will do something good with this character.

  11. #56
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Well, suppose Krakoa eats him? Then he could be brought back with that new lease on life you mentioned.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Well, suppose Krakoa eats him? Then he could be brought back with that new lease on life you mentioned.
    Should have had Danger keep him in a virtual reality where he just eats, drinks and poops all day.

  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    Well, suppose Krakoa eats him? Then he could be brought back with that new lease on life you mentioned.
    Or do like they do with Omega Red. Give him plenty of mutants to kill, since they just revive anyway. And call it a day like Magneto did with Red.

    So far, the whole situation is showing a bias that's always been all too apparent with Creed's character.

  14. #59
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    The only time Sabretooth was ever a viable character that could work as a functioning member of the X-men was when he was inverted circa Bunn's runn. Outside of that he is a true sociopath and most attempts at reforming him (Xavier in the mid 90s, X-Factor and Rogue's team) end up in disaster bc he is truly an evil character with absolutely no conscience or moral compass. He doesnt play well with others and no someone you can work with. The only viable option would to do another inversion like spell on him but there isnt really anyone that gives a damn about him that feels he is worth salvaging. Its easy to just make an example out of him and throw him away

    Other than that, the writers could just let him loose and embrace him as a villian

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member AbnormallyNormal's Avatar
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    I like Sabretooth as a dark-grey character but who is "sane enough" to go on adventures and engage in criminal hijinks alongside the likes of Raven. His portrayal in Pak's run was excellent for me, particularly as it went on.

    In Dawn of X, he was absolutely scapegoated and his "agency" removed, and the way Raven acted towards him was bizarre.

    I liked his building ties with Monet that Bunn's Uncanny was establishing also.

    I know many casual/nostalgic/long-time fans view Creed as 100% sociopath and all that. And any talk of portraying him with ambiguity they hate. But for me... well.. yeah. Like I said, he is an example of a character where his starting position is Definite Villain but you can begin creating wiggle room around the edges and expanding on some established/hinted character traits to flesh him out and make him more engaging.

    When it comes to his "power level" yes I think the whole concept that he is extremely similar to Logan, except there is a mutual tradeoff: Logan has the adamantium-bonded skeleton and claws which boost his offense but also tax his healing factor and perhaps reduce his animal sensing. Creed has the opposite. Also the idea Creed is more ruthless or manipulative psycho-socially. While Logan is more of a pure warrior. The problem is writers over time have basically made Logan "everything".... but the older concepts of Logan having for sure limitations both on his abilities and personality allows for a nice symmetry against Creed.
    Last edited by AbnormallyNormal; 05-08-2020 at 03:15 AM.
    Forget the old ways - Krakoa is god.

    OBEY

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