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Thread: The Big Debates

  1. #31
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinroc View Post
    A lot of people don't.
    Well, "a lot of people" probably don't care about the nitty gritty of Spider-Man, but I think that nitty gritty is still important .

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Another way to phrase the Ock/ Venom question is whether it's better to have them as protagonists than antagonists. If Superior Spider-Man and Venom are making money and decent comics, is that a worthwhile tradeoff to taking two of the biggest Spider-Man villains off the board.
    In Venom's case yes, because he has been extremely profitable in merchandise, and other paraphernalia across the board since his first appearance and he carried a $800mn movie, and has been a playable character in some games too. In the case of Superior Octopus, his profitability doesn't even come close to those numbers. The original Superior Spider-Man comics sold on hype and gimmick and sales stagnated towards the middle and end of the run. The current Superior comics sell well but not as well as Donny Cates' Venom series or Spencer's main run as Spider-Man. At the end of the day, the version of Dr. Octopus that is most liked and most consistently popular is the villainous version whether in the PS4 game or in ITSV where Olivia Octopus is paradoxically the most faithful to Lee-Ditko's Ock (i.e. scientist-gangster) than any other version. Superior Spider-Man is also a legacy of Spider-Man. And the debate about Spider-Man's legacy is settled. It's Miles Morales.

    There's also the fact that Superior Octopus is entirely unorginal. The main element, hook, and event the adjective 'superior' borrows from Kraven's Last Hunt, and he also borrows a fair bit from Venom in being a "lethal protector". So there's not much by itself that is new and distinct.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member whiteshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Larsen has his fans but McFarlane has the advantage of coming first and working on more important issues so it may not be close enough.

    Todd McFarlane or Mark Bagley might be an interesting argument, just because there are complicating factors (McFarlane had a shorter run; Bagley's had multiple runs on the character.)

    The spider-mobile might get to a larger debate on embracing the silly, and it can be extended by the side-arguments about whether it was fine in the beginning as something that the character didn't take seriously.
    Mark Bagley would be another artist that i would add to which was the best artist in Amazing Spider-Man in the 90īs.He illustrated Amazing Spider-Man in a great way and more stories that Erik Larsen but i think the consistency of the stories while Larsen was illustrating them was better that when Bagley was illustrating the stories because some of the stories in ASM while Bagley was the illustrator had more story arcs with another Spider-Man comics with different artistīs, thus why i thought first between Tod McFarlane and Erik Larsen.
    And i think a argument could be made for Sal Buscema being another of the best artist of Spider-Man comics in the 90s.Sal Buscema illustrated Spectacular Spider-Man but he would be one artist that i could say was one of the best artist of Spider-Man comics as well so between him and Todd McFarlane,Mark Bagley and Erik Larsen,iīd say is tough to say who was the best one.

    The Spider Mobile is a fine example of how comic book stories can have silly concepts but even so those very same silly concepts can be brought back in new ways in the stories as the new Spider Mobiles from the Parker Industries Era.
    Last edited by whiteshark; 05-26-2019 at 05:10 AM.

  4. #34
    Spider-Fan Since '95 WebSlingWonder's Avatar
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    I just think it's weird how many of Spider-Man's villains wanted to replace him. Doc Ock, Kraven, Venom, Mysterio...
    The Amazing, Spectacular, Sensational Web-Slinger!

  5. #35
    Really Feeling It! Kevinroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, "a lot of people" probably don't care about the nitty gritty of Spider-Man, but I think that nitty gritty is still important .
    You are posting on a Spider-Man message board. You might have more than a casual interest in the character.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    In Venom's case yes, because he has been extremely profitable in merchandise, and other paraphernalia across the board since his first appearance and he carried a $800mn movie, and has been a playable character in some games too. In the case of Superior Octopus, his profitability doesn't even come close to those numbers. The original Superior Spider-Man comics sold on hype and gimmick and sales stagnated towards the middle and end of the run. The current Superior comics sell well but not as well as Donny Cates' Venom series or Spencer's main run as Spider-Man. At the end of the day, the version of Dr. Octopus that is most liked and most consistently popular is the villainous version whether in the PS4 game or in ITSV where Olivia Octopus is paradoxically the most faithful to Lee-Ditko's Ock (i.e. scientist-gangster) than any other version. Superior Spider-Man is also a legacy of Spider-Man. And the debate about Spider-Man's legacy is settled. It's Miles Morales.

    There's also the fact that Superior Octopus is entirely unorginal. The main element, hook, and event the adjective 'superior' borrows from Kraven's Last Hunt, and he also borrows a fair bit from Venom in being a "lethal protector". So there's not much by itself that is new and distinct.
    The main thing about Superior Spider-Man was the tone, which differed from Kraven's efforts to impersonate Spider-Man. A spinoff of Kraven trying to be a superhero with Spider-Man's powers would not be the same.

  7. #37
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    On the drive home for work, I was listening to one of the Munk Debates. These have top figures, typically two on each side, debating a major public policy issue for about an hour and a half, with opening statements, a back and forth and closing statements. And I started wondering what Spider-Man topics could be debated in this manner.

    There are probably a few.
    Not a bad list.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Ditko or Romita, who has the better take on Spider-Man?
    I don't actually have a strong opinion on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Should Peter Parker be married to Mary Jane?
    Yes, I personally like the story fodder that that has provided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    What's the better Spider-Man film adaptation: the Raimi/ Maguire trilogy or the MCU Spidey?
    The Raimi movies easily, IMHO (although I would throw the Spider-Verse movie in there as well). I do like the MCU Spidey, but the older movies do a better job showing who the character is and have the better stories so far, once again IMHO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Who's the better Spider-Man writer: Roger Stern or JM DeMatteis?
    No strong opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Going forward, should Venom be a hero or villain?
    Maybe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Going forward, should Doctor Octopus be a hero or villain?
    This isn't SM2; Ock was and always will be the villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    What do you guys think? Are there other big disagreements on this level?
    I've heard a lot of chatter over the pros and cons of Spidey as a teen vs. an adult. ASM vs. Ultimate could be another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    Spider-Man's costume is better with or without the underarms' webs? You can start WWIII with that question
    I don't like them at all, myself.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    [*]Ditko or Romita, who has the better take on Spider-Man?
    I don't really have a opinion on this

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    [*]Should Peter Parker be married to Mary Jane?
    No i dont think Peter needs to be married at all, i think having them married creates a problem if the next writer wants to do something different
    for example Storm/Black Panther, Medusa/ Black Bolt or even Reed/Susan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    [*]What's the better Spider-Man film adaptation: the Raimi/ Maguire trilogy or the MCU Spidey?
    I dont think we have seen enough yet to compare plus Holland has access to a cast that Maguire didnt

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    [*]Who's the better Spider-Man writer: Roger Stern or JM DeMatteis?
    Not sure if i have read all the runs don't think its fair to compare

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    [*]Going forward, should Venom be a hero or villain?
    Venom hero
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    [*]Going forward, should Doctor Octopus be a hero or villain?
    Ock should be a villain
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Gwen vs. MJ
    Gwen
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    MJ vs. Black Cat is probably a big one.
    MJ
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Was Gwen Stacy a good/worthwhile character?
    Of course till the change in creative teams came into play
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Who is Spider-Man's Archenemy? Green Goblin? Doc Ock? Venom?
    Green Goblin, maybe venom but then again i'm a fan of Agent Venom so Goblin

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Does Spider-Man's narrative work with a bunch of other spider-heroes/characters?
    It could but it would have to be limited for example Jessica Drew doesnt count, neither does Julia, i don't seem them as Spider characters, i think maybe limiting it to 6
    Gwen, Miles, Ben, Kaine, Cindy and Anya. That would be Spider Heroes however you could have Harry as the America Son and maybe Flash as Agent Venom but that again having venom be a anti hero works too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Should Spider-Man be in high school or be an adult?
    Most of his publication has been an adult so i would say adult.
    Truth is the best policy

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    is it spelt wheatcake or weetcake
    troo fan or death

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Should Aunt May know Peter is Spider-Man?
    .
    Yes, she should, IMO.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  11. #41
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    is it spelt wheatcake or weetcake
    aunt munchies' famous weedcakes
    heroine addict we love you come back

  12. #42

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    Should Norman Osborn have come back from the dead?

    How about Harry Osborn?

    Should Gwen come back?

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Should Norman Osborn have come back from the dead?

    How about Harry Osborn?

    Should Gwen come back?
    IMO, simply put

    Hard No

    Soft No (if the right storyline came along, maybe)

    Hard No
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-06-2019 at 06:06 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    Should Norman Osborn have come back from the dead?

    How about Harry Osborn?

    Should Gwen come back?
    Hell no. Same goes for Kraven the Hunter.

    No strong opinion.

    No.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Should Aunt May know Peter is Spider-Man?


    My stance on this is yes. It gives her something to do other than have her health in danger to give Peter another source of anxiety.
    Yes. Added to Aunt May's character along with JMS' writing. JMS writes the best Aunt May.

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