Terminator: Dark Fate

[Celgress]

Well she is very scary with it when she talks about Tim douchebag.

Frankly, it should have ended in T2, but Miller and Cameron did the same with Ridley Scott did to the alien franchise, they killed it with shitty sequels nobody wanted..

Those Alien prequels (well, one prequel and one "not prequel") almost ruined the Xenomorph concept for me. I hate David having "created" them and the Space Jockeys being big blue humans so much (both concepts take away any mystery surrounding the Xenomorphs). Only when I say to myself Prometheus and Covenant happened in a separate universe and therefore don't count as canon (in my mind at least) can I watch the original movies in peace.

[Hulkout42]

Those Alien prequels (well, one prequel and one "not prequel") almost ruined the Xenomorph concept for me. I hate David having "created" them and the Space Jockeys being big blue humans so much (both concepts take away any mystery surrounding the Xenomorphs). Only when I say to myself Prometheus and Covenant happened in a separate universe and therefore don't count as canon (in my mind at least) can I watch the original movies in peace.

You know what really sounds screw up about this movie? Cameron came out to say when Alien 3 kills Newt and Hicks in the opening moments it was utterly stupid, yet he committed the same sin by killing John in the first 3 minutes.

[Celgress]

You know what really sounds screw up about this movie? Cameron came out to say when Alien 3 kills Newt and Hicks in the opening moments it was utterly stupid, yet he committed the same sin by killing John in the first 3 minutes.

True, I hate very few things worse than hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is arguably the worst form of intellectual dishonesty.

[ChrisIII]

To be fair though, at least John had three extra movies (Two as the protagonist, one as the villain) despite being in a now separate continuity. Newt and Hicks didn't get much except ALIENS unless you count the spin-off material, many of it released before ALIEN 3, such as the comics, or the video game Colonial Marines which reveals that the Hicks in Alien3 was in fact a body double swapped with the real Hicks.

There was of course the Alien 5 project that would've ignored everything after ALIENS much like DARK FATE, but unfortunately that was DOA.

[titanfan]

To be fair though, at least John had three extra movies (Two as the protagonist, one as the villain) despite being in a now separate continuity. Newt and Hicks didn't get much except ALIENS unless you count the spin-off material, many of it released before ALIEN 3, such as the comics, or the video game Colonial Marines which reveals that the Hicks in Alien3 was in fact a body double swapped with the real Hicks.

There was of course the Alien 5 project that would've ignored everything after ALIENS much like DARK FATE, but unfortunately that was DOA.

I would also argue John was no longer the beloved (if he was ever beloved at all) character at all. Certainly it seems like every single movie since the 3rd wanted to move away from his character. It's just that none of the other characters caught on.

[ilovelocust]

All I've been able to think since finding out John Conner died, is that this will make great parody material. I can see it now, Terminator kills John Conner "Nooooo", then new hero girl and time traveler show up. They just finish introducing themselves, then BOOM terminator kills her. Suddenly new time traveler new ultimate hero walk onto the scene. They barely get through their names before they're dead too. Next pair don't even get out the first syllable. Sponge Bob jump cut "Seven Billion Terminator Assassinations Later", Sarah Conner appears to herself and asks if she wants to watch Saturday Night Live.

[MichaelC]

I would also argue John was no longer the beloved (if he was ever beloved at all) character at all. Certainly it seems like every single movie since the 3rd wanted to move away from his character. It's just that none of the other characters caught on.

That's a good point. John was originally just a plot-device to motivate Reese and Sarah. He was more of a character in two, but even there the T-800 and Sarah were much more interesting characters, with stronger character-arcs. The thing about John is, he is literally a christ-figure. His initials are even JC, the same as Jesus Christ. He was never originally intended to be a character. He was the voice of God speaking through his angel, telling Sarah of her destiny to raise the messiah. Attempts to make him a real character were inherently doomed, or at least a herculean struggle. So they pretty much gave up after Salvation and keep trying to dump him for more relatable characters.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

That's a good point. John was originally just a plot-device to motivate Reese and Sarah. He was more of a character in two, but even there the T-800 and Sarah were much more interesting characters, with stronger character-arcs. The thing about John is, he is literally a christ-figure. His initials are even JC, the same as Jesus Christ. He was never originally intended to be a character. He was the voice of God speaking through his angel, telling Sarah of her destiny to raise the messiah. Attempts to make him a real character were inherently doomed, or at least a herculean struggle. So they pretty much gave up after Salvation and keep trying to dump him for more relatable characters.

I disagree with that, I think John Connor can be made into a relatable character. I'm just not sure people were invested in doing so because of the love for Arnold and Linda. It's the Halo Franchise paradox. Trying to world build past a popular character. And yeah I think nostalgia more than anything stifles The Terminator franchise.

[Madam-Shogun-Assassin]

All the movies since Rise of the Machines have bombed commercially AND critically, and RotM was only moderately successful box office-wise. It's not that they were "scared" to follow-up Salvation but the box office and critical response didn't warrant it especially given its budget.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. The Terminator is one of the greatest science fiction films of all-time and works as a self-contained universe that has one of the best predestination paradoxes ever. T2 pretty much ruins that, but because it's an entertaining action flick it's mostly forgiven. But there really wasn't anywhere to go after T2 except where they went, which was confusing, alternate timelines and continuously treating judgment day as both inevitable and preventable.

For me, I'm fine with them putting the franchise to rest for a while. The Sarah Connor Chronicles was probably my favorite post-T2 terminator live-action media, and even that series had its share of flaws and couldn't generate an audience to sustain it. I just think the interest in the franchise has waned.

Nah, I think they need to do a low budget future war film. Something that shows the formation of the resistance. Just make a gritty SciFi war story. Das it...

[Serpico Jones]

This is the second movie in a row in which Tim Miller has major friction with someone important behind the scenes. First it was Ryan Reynolds in Deadpool and now Jim Cameron in this. Studios should be wary of hiring this loose cannon.

[Emperor-of-Dragons]

Fwiw I'm fine with them movie away from Arnold Schwarzenegger. In fact, I've been fine with that.

[Hulkout42]

I disagree with that, I think John Connor can be made into a relatable character. I'm just not sure people were invested in doing so because of the love for Arnold and Linda. It's the Halo Franchise paradox. Trying to world build past a popular character. And yeah I think nostalgia more than anything stifles The Terminator franchise.

I saw several videos on Youtube that postulate that what could have been done was show John as someone who is lost because for all intents and purposes his life was ruined by the events that took place in T2, then when Ramos appears as his replacement he and his mother would help her because they understood what she is going through and in the process give John renewed purpose as they fight the REV9 and protect her alongside Grace and potentially the T800. Frankly, I would have like to have seen that over going in 3 minutes and see a young John be gunned down and making everything they went through utterly meaningless and make Sarah Connor, one of the first badass heroines of cinema into a bitter failure.

In fact, from what I heard, Hamilton was not in favor of killing John but either Miller or Cameron pushed ahead with it in order to prop up the female minority character as the new chosen one...which I really failed to see because she is so small that frankly when you see her with a gun I felt she should have been dropped from the recoil alone. I mean I can't have been the only one who cringed when they saw that scene where they try to teach a to use a gun, see her struggle with a handgun's recoil only to miraculously handle an even BIGGER weapon with no issues and perfect aim. That was stupider than when the future Dani faces of aginst a group to save Grace who is at least twice her size, this movie deserves to bomb and hopefully put an end to this travesty to what was a good series.

[Username taken]

Well she is very scary with it when she talks about Tim douchebag.

Frankly, it should have ended in T2, but Miller and Cameron did the same with Ridley Scott did to the alien franchise, they killed it with shitty sequels nobody wanted.

It also didn't help when Miller in a bout of stupidity insulted the fanbase by calling them misogynists.

And now that it is failing Miller and Cameron are trying to through each other under the bus when it is both their faults this is such a turd.

When did Miller call people misogynists?

I’m literallt hearing this for the first time.

[Nate Grey]

When did Miller call people misogynists?

I’m literallt hearing this for the first time.

"Tim Miller Says ‘Terminator: Dark Fate’ Will ‘Scare the F*ck’ Out of Misogynistic Internet Trolls".

"If you’re at all enlightened, she’ll play like gangbusters. If you’re a closet misogynist, she’ll scare the f–k out of you, because she’s tough and strong but very feminine. We did not trade certain gender traits for others; she’s just very strong, and that frightens some dudes. You can see online the responses to some of the early s–t that’s out there, trolls on the internet. I don’t give a f–k."

[Serpico Jones]

No wonder he was fired from Deadpool 2.