BATMAN/CATWOMAN #1 by TOM KING & CLAY MANN (JANUARY 2020)

[lilyrose]

Since he's more suited to miniseries anyway, it's entirely possible this is a better format for him and it will be really good.

[borntohula]

Cool. I quite like it when a bigger tale like it is spread out a bit. Bit like Morrison's Batman was. To me this no different than Batman INC ending his run.

Seems like it's due to Batman going back to being a monthly. Just a shame it had to come out as damaging click bait from BC instead of DC...

King's Batman is not my favorite (I quite like a number of King books) but I have a really good feeling about this Batman/Catwoman book. Saying it's akin to Morrison and Quietly's Batman and Robin. Hope it's cool

[JasonTodd428]

Disagree. King is lucky he got this maxi.

Harris did him a solid.

It feels more like a placating gesture to me to be honest given the suddenness of events. Whatever caused his removal from the book happened just last weekend supposedly. Mark my words this was done to keep him at DC and nothing more. Odds are fairly good that he will jump ship as soon as his contract is up.

Also in all honestly I do think this will have some kind of adverse effect on DC. Remember during the N52 how writers were talking about how toxic editorial was at the time? This situation sounds very similar. If I was a writer it would definitely put me off writing for them and it would really put me off writing their higher profile books. A new up and coming writer might see this and think to themselves that its not worth the hassle of working for DC if they can be treated like sh*it by editorial and the higher ups over something that may have been nothing more than a status quo shift, which other writers in the past have been allowed to do. Of course that's just how I feel about it so I don't expect others to feel as I do but to imply it would have no effect at all is being disingenuous.

[TacoKid]

As someone who hasn’t read much of King’s Batman run apart from an issue here or there, can someone hit me with a few bullet points on why, at least here in one of the harder core areas of comic fandom, there’s is this disdain for this run?

[Korath]

It feels more like a placating gesture to me to be honest given the suddenness of events. Whatever caused his removal from the book happened just last weekend supposedly. Mark my words this was done to keep him at DC and nothing more. Odds are fairly good that he will jump ship as soon as his contract is up.

Also in all honestly I do think this will have some kind of adverse effect on DC. Remember during the N52 how writers were talking about how toxic editorial was at the time? This situation sounds very similar. If I was a writer it would definitely put me off writing for them and it would really put me off writing their higher profile books. A new up and coming writer might see this and think to themselves that its not worth the hassle of working for DC if they can be treated like sh*it by editorial and the higher ups over something that may have been nothing more than a status quo shift, which other writers in the past have been allowed to do. Of course that's just how I feel about it so I don't expect others to feel as I do but to imply it would have no effect at all is being disingenuous.

The difference being that it's a highly devise and relatively poorly selling run which is being cut short, not every artist being screwed over. And that without Bleeding Cool learning of it beforehand, DC would have had time to better present the whole thing.

I'm pretty sure that after the debacles of the Knightmares and HiC, King's stars was dimming, he tried to go over editorial about changes which weren't that appreciated or accepted yet, and it backfired. The timing with his interview about a "generational change" for Batman and this is too close to not be suspect, to me at least.

[Eto]

As someone who hasn’t read much of King’s Batman run apart from an issue here or there, can someone hit me with a few bullet points on why, at least here in one of the harder core areas of comic fandom, there’s is this disdain for this run?

Personally, this I how I feel about it:
- PTSD Batman
- fillers
- cringe dialogue
- plot that goes nowhere
- Bat/Cat doesn't feel natural (when he writes it)
- no direction
- he simply does not understand Batman

[Bruce Wayne]

The difference being that it's a highly devise and relatively poorly selling run .

Except it's not.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...63#post4371763

He is no Snyder, but it's not selling badly either. And sales were/are improving.

"Bad sales" is apparently just justification by Harras because he didn't like the run.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/05...m-king-batman/

[JasonTodd428]

The difference being that it's a highly devise and relatively poorly selling run which is being cut short, not every artist being screwed over. And that without Bleeding Cool learning of it beforehand, DC would have had time to better present the whole thing.

First off while King's run has been divisive it's certainly not selling poorly at all unless you and DC consider 80k to 100k poor. I feel like a broken record saying this but Batman selling over 100k with Snyder was the exception not the rule for the book. Until he did it regularly no one else managed that. Expecting EVERY SINGLE WRITER after that point to do is is stupid and naive on the part both of fans and on the part of DC. Snyder was a case of lightening in a bottle and it will likely be a while before another writer comes along with the ability to do that again. Comic sales are in a slump across the board and its getting more and more difficult for people to justify spending $3.99 or more for such a small amount of entertainment.

Secondly, you may not feel like anyone has been screwed over by this but it doesn't really matter what you or I think. We are not writers looking to get hired by DC. All I can say is how I feel about it and from my point of view this is not how you treat any creative and that I believe it looks bad for DC to have made such a move against a writer on a MAJOR DC book. I certainly wouldn't be able to trust them after this if I were looking to break into comics because they have once again broken that trust.

Thirdly, DC has a history of screwing over creatives while Harras has been at the helm so the precedent is there. Let's not forget that writers were talking about how toxic editorial had become there only a few years ago and that writers have left them in the past over being treated like sh*t by editors and higher ups.

I'm pretty sure that after the debacles of the Knightmares and HiC, King's stars was dimming, he tried to go over editorial about changes which weren't that appreciated or accepted yet, and it backfired. The timing with his interview about a "generational change" for Batman and this is too close to not be suspect, to me at least.

Do you have a link that states the bolded as being the reason for certain or is it just fan speculation? I don't remember seeing anything about that but I've not looked at every single bit of info out there about this either.

[Korath]

Do you have a link that states the bolded as being the reason for certain or is it just fan speculation? I don't remember seeing anything about that but I've not looked at every single bit of info out there about this either.

That's just a hunch, because the interview where he announced that he went directly to AT&T and WB over DC editors was released merely days before he was kicked from the book. Which makes me think that it wasn't a done deal yet, some peoples weren't sold yet, but he tried to gather fan support (who wouldn't want to see a generational change to Batman -even one done by King, who already did that to Wally West in HiC?) but it backfired on it. But it was a sound decision, if it was truly what he did, it could have been a success, really, if he had had a stronger hand to play. But DC doesn't want Batman to be into too much controversy, especially because the last huge changes to characters that King did (to Booster Gold or Wally, for instance) have been poorly received, to say the least.

[JasonTodd428]

That's just a hunch, because the interview where he announced that he went directly to AT&T and WB over DC editors was released merely days before he was kicked from the book. Which makes me think that it wasn't a done deal yet, some peoples weren't sold yet, but he tried to gather fan support (who wouldn't want to see a generational change to Batman -even one done by King, who already did that to Wally West in HiC?) but it backfired on it. But it was a sound decision, if it was truly what he did, it could have been a success, really, if he had had a stronger hand to play. But DC doesn't want Batman to be into too much controversy, especially because the last huge changes to characters that King did (to Booster Gold or Wally, for instance) have been poorly received, to say the least.

Ah. Thanks for taking the time to clarify. I thought I might have missed something.

[Arnoldoaad]

That's just a hunch, because the interview where he announced that he went directly to AT&T and WB over DC editors was released merely days before he was kicked from the book. Which makes me think that it wasn't a done deal yet, some peoples weren't sold yet, but he tried to gather fan support (who wouldn't want to see a generational change to Batman -even one done by King, who already did that to Wally West in HiC?) but it backfired on it. But it was a sound decision, if it was truly what he did, it could have been a success, really, if he had had a stronger hand to play. But DC doesn't want Batman to be into too much controversy, especially because the last huge changes to characters that King did (to Booster Gold or Wally, for instance) have been poorly received, to say the least.

I dont think it happen like that

It makes more sense that he went to DC editors and then they say "we could do that but WB/AT&T wouldnt allow it" and then he went to speak with them maybe even with the editor
at least this makes more sense than somehow King overstepping his boundries to tell this story becaue at the end of the say if WB/AT&T gave the ok, that doesnt mean that it has to be enforced
meaning they could simply not do it if indeed Harras is opposed, they could also not gave a chance to King to finish it

This seems more of a way of how to do it rather than what to do

[Celgress]

Personally, this I how I feel about it:
- PTSD Batman
- fillers
- cringe dialogue
- plot that goes nowhere
- Bat/Cat doesn't feel natural (when he writes it)
- no direction
- he simply does not understand Batman

My thoughts exactly, good summation.

[JasonTodd428]

I dont think it happen like that

It makes more sense that he went to DC editors and then they say "we could do that but WB/AT&T wouldnt allow it" and then he went to speak with them maybe even with the editor
at least this makes more sense than somehow King overstepping his boundries to tell this story becaue at the end of the say if WB/AT&T gave the ok, that doesnt mean that it has to be enforced
meaning they could simply not do it if indeed Harras is opposed, they could also not gave a chance to King to finish it

This seems more of a way of how to do it rather than what to do

Yeah, the bolded makes a lot more sense to me than that he went over editor's heads in order to get his way on this.

My thoughts exactly, good summation.

Bendis has the same issues with cringy dialogue, plots that go nowhere, decompression, lack of direction and not understanding characters or caring about whatever their status quos are and yet people want him to take over Batman.

[Bruce Wayne]

Probably over the marriage since DC has a no-marriage-rule as a result of Harras.

So screwing up King is just petty office politics.

[Arnoldoaad]

Probably over the marriage since DC has a no-marriage-rule as a result of Harras.

So screwing up King is just petty office politics.

being fair we still dont know if there is a marriage