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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    There might be a little bias because I'm a huge Damian fan, but out of the three, I enjoyed Morrison's run the most. The only thing I didn't particularly like was his portrayal of Talia (I used to be as adamant about BruceXTalia as I am about him and Selina now) but I got over that years ago.

    Snyder...I actually don't remember a lot about his run aside from Death of the Family (which I enjoyed well enough but didn't really think it was anything great). It was during a time when I sorta fell off with comics.

    King though....oh man....oooooh King. I used to be one of the people who defended his run, tooth and nail. For a while I actually did like it. But damn has it gone off the rails, HARD. He is slowly making me hope I never see Bane again after this run. The Batcat stuff was good (though not always well written, thanks to King's annoying fetish for symbolic repetition). A lot of the filler stuff was pretty good too. But he never fails to lose me whenever the story goes back to Bane's drawn out and convoluted plan to once again "Break the Bat". It's just not very fun to read when the same **** keeps happening. And considering that's supposed to be the main draw to his run, I'd say that's pretty bad.

    Like today's issue for example. Yet ANOTHER chapter of Bane kicking Bruce's ass, juxtaposed with some narration in the background that's trying to be deep. At least I think that's what it was doing this time. Once I realized I was in for more of that ****, I just started skimming.

  2. #47
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    Back on topic...

    Not a fan of Morrison's Batman run, his ethos, or it's legacy. That said, B&R was pretty good and I surprised myslef by really liked Batman Inc vol 2.

    Snyder's run on Batman is fast food, quick, fun and easy. I loved it at the time, but actually have a hard job re-reading it these days. There were parts of Endgame I really disliked, and post Endgame I feel he really dropped the ball. That said, The Black Mirror from 'Tec, Death of the Family and Batman: Eternal (he is credited as lead writer) are all superb.

    King's run is pretty much everything I want from a Batman book. I adore it. I'm not saying every single issue is the greatest thing I've ever read, but as a Batman run, I couldn't really ask for more. I hope I still feel this way after it ends (we still have a ways to go).
    Funny enough I consider neither of the 3 as a fastfood kind of writer
    if you want a good example of a writer like that I would point out to Tony Daniel's Batman or Deathstroke where the action is the main focus while Snyder is more oriented to Horror.

    Moving forward, can we please stop with the "X is a bad writer"? None of these three are bad writers, all are among the greatest currently working in the field. You not enjoying a work, does not make them a bad writer. And I appreciate, I can be as guilty of this as anyone.
    Thats exactly right

  3. #48
    Fantastic Member Nero's Avatar
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    No, not really. I would say of the three presented here, I liked Morrison the most. I mean, I'm not like a die hard Morrison fan and I didn't love everything he did but every so often I go back and reread his work. Didn't care for Damien at first but over the course of time, he's grown on me to the point where I can't see him not being around. The stuff he did with Professor Pyg, Dr. Hurt, the Club of Villains and the Black Glove, I liked a lot. Come to think of it, more should be done with Dr. Hurt and Professor Pyg actually. Didn't care for the Batman Incorporated stuff. Didn't mind Talia fully embracing her inner Al Ghul, I could see how all of those times her "beloved" rejected her could drive her to that.

    With Snyder....he was hit or miss. Which granted, you can say practically about anyone but with him it was more prevalent. I still believe his strongest work was his run on Detective Comics with the Black Mirror story. I liked what he did with Court of Owls. The only reason I liked Zero Year was because I liked how Snyder enhanced the Riddler into a credible threat to Batman and Gotham City. That's about it, actually. Didn't care for any of his Joker stories, it just seems like he tries to hard with the Joker. Definitely didn't care for him having Jim Gordon be Batman.

    With King....no, there's no liking what he's done. As I said before if anything, he's convinced me the Bat should not be with the Cat. As much as I like Bane, this idea that Bane is this omniscient mastermind is just ludicrous. It doesn't help that he's gone over seventy issues where he's pretty much writing in circles. Then there's the dialogue....it's terrible, just terrible. I've seen better dialogue with the hostess pie ads. I honestly believe the man doesn't know what he's doing and worse yet, I don't think he wants to know. I think he's the type to throw anything at the wall to see if anything stick, not caring how much of a mess he's made out of the canvas. Definitely one of the worst writers I've ever seen working on Batman.

  4. #49
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    I liked Morrison up until Bruce returned. Looking back, I think Batman and Robin was his peak. I didn't particularly care for International. I still collected it, but I wasn't enjoying it as much as I enjoyed what Morrison had did to that point. I respect the man for doing something radically different with Batman, though. Not an easy task for a well storied character as old as he is.

    Snyder was absolutely fantastic when he did his Detective run. He achieved this during the period Dick was filling the cowl and cape as well. The Court Of Owls was great as well. But Snyder lost me when he developed a hard on for The Joker. He also went and butchered Mr Freeze's origin for the sake of it and became so self-indulgent to think he could top Year One with that trash Year Zero.

    King is hit and miss. I'll have to reevaluate his run once it is over. But he has written some good arcs and has done some pretty bad ones. Knightmares was supposed to be, what, 5 issues? Yet here we are months later and it seems he is just spinning his wheels. The dude needs to **** or get off the pot.

  5. #50
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    King is a hack. Constantly has Batman get his butt kicked and out smarted. ignores that Batman is supposed to be a master detective and is supposed to be trained by masters of all hand to hand combat. Why would Bane break the Bat again? Wouldnt he kill him? King needs to be removed immediately. His Heroes in Crisis was the worst limited series in history of comics. Just a bad writer period.
    To be fair, Batman has been looking like an incompetent moron even before Tom King took over, but King seems to have set the bar even lower now.

  6. #51
    Spectacular Member TravelerInTheDark's Avatar
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    I have never liked Snyder's work and I doubt I ever will. He's quite frankly boring as hell. He's overtly verbose with no sense of poetry. He likes to hype grand setups but each time he disappoints with alarming consistency. He quite clearly rips off Morrison and it's a wonder he doesn't get called out for it more, especially given that he is barely store-brand quality in comparison.

    King is fine. Overhyped, but still capable of writing really entertaining stuff and he's not afraid to take risks. Sometimes they pay off and we end up with a great read, sometimes they don't and we're left with a pile of pretentious crap. Though his one-trick of having most characters he writes be struggling with some kind of depression or suicidal tendencies is quickly wearing thin.

    Morrison in my opinion has earned a position among the pantheon of greatest writers the Big 2 have ever seen.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravelerInTheDark View Post
    I have never liked Snyder's work and I doubt I ever will. He's quite frankly boring as hell. He's overtly verbose with no sense of poetry. He likes to hype grand setups but each time he disappoints with alarming consistency. He quite clearly rips off Morrison and it's a wonder he doesn't get called out for it more, especially given that he is barely store-brand quality in comparison.

    King is fine. Overhyped, but still capable of writing really entertaining stuff and he's not afraid to take risks. Sometimes they pay off and we end up with a great read, sometimes they don't and we're left with a pile of pretentious crap. Though his one-trick of having most characters he writes be struggling with some kind of depression or suicidal tendencies is quickly wearing thin.

    Morrison in my opinion has earned a position among the pantheon of greatest writers the Big 2 have ever seen.
    What is this great read that you speak of? I haven’t seen anything like that from King so far. Or are you talking outside of Batman?

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon1load View Post
    What is this great read that you speak of? I haven’t seen anything like that from King so far. Or are you talking outside of Batman?
    Have you read Batman/Elmer Fudd?
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Have you read Batman/Elmer Fudd?
    That, Rooftops, Good Boy, Some Of These Days, Superfriends, The Button Pt. 1, The Brave And The Mold, The Ballad Of Kite Man, DC Nation #0, and Knightmares: Cat are probably the highlights of his run, all those issues and stories I think are excellent.

    And this is just a personal preference, but I really liked I Am Suicide, I Am Bane, and the rest of the War Of Jokes And Riddles, they were really engaging story arcs and worked very well reading all in one go.

  10. #55
    Amazing Member gooch4011's Avatar
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    I love Grant Morrison's run.
    I HATED Synder's run. Then again I'm not a Synder fan.
    As for King, He started out so strong but I lost interest in him around issue 38, then after 50 it just got bad.

  11. #56
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    I really liked Grant Morrison's Batman run
    then when it ended I read Scott Snyder's and I like it a lot
    and then I read and still read Kings run and I like it too

    Am I the only one?

    I ask this because I notice a lot of negativity that comes from threads of Kings run, I dont enter into many discussions here, however I dont see them as new. I clearly remember reading the exact same things about Snyder
    that he was the worst writer to ever touch batman
    Overrated
    he ruined him forever
    OMG OWLS!!
    really? this March guy looks just like Bruce, WTH Capullo, you suck!!

    and Morrison was not different
    what the hell, a kid, for batman
    OMG what is he is snoring now
    What am I reading!!!(this last one is still valid for FC7)

    I of course have my own critisisms on these runs But I never thought that they were ruining the character or that they werent entertaining for the least.

    I really dislike some of the deconstruction aspects that Morrison did to batman, I think he could had been more straightforward and I never really liked his take on the Joker very much but I liked Dr Hurt even less, just never stoke me as a big villain and his motivation just wasnt very clear to me.

    I think Snyder had a bad habit on trying to reform to many aspects of Batman that some didnt hit, like the new origins for Mr Freeze and Hush were completely unnesesary for example
    basically if it wasnt broken dont try to fix it
    and his Death of the Family was an overall weak story for what was a pretty good concept

    King's pacing is pretty bad, some stories move too slow while others move too quick, Knightmares should had been 4 issues at the most not 8, but I overall liked the idea.

    The biggest flaw that I have seen in other Batman writers is that I read an story and I felt that I have read it before, like it didnt leave a mark on the characters or on the world. they become forgettable after some time.
    I can honestly say that neither of the 3 main writers of the past 15 years have make that mistake.
    I appreciate this thread! (Also, we do have a nice King Batman thread here that isn't about negativity )

    I'm not a huge fan of Morrison or Snyder's dialogue - Morrison because it tends to feel too much like story notes/exposition rather than character voicing, and Snyder because his Bruce is way too cocky for me. I love Snyder's Dick and Jim Gordon, though, which is why I love Black Mirror and quite enjoy Superheavy. (I prefer Tynion to Snyder for voicing and general story choices, though).

    That being said, Morrison's invention of Batman Inc is the most exciting idea for Batman in a huge amount of time - I'd say maybe since No Man's Land or even Knightfall. Snyder has a real gift for working with artists who get some of the best out of his work, and Black Mirror is a true masterpiece - a worthy follow up to Year One.

    King, though. King has made me love Batman as a character, and not just the source of my beloved Batfamily, for the first time since Dixon. Knightmares gets a lot of hate, but I actually really adored almost all of it. For 10 issues, King had explored the plot consequences of the failed wedding. But in the 8 issues of the Knightmares, we finally find out what Batman thinks.

    And it's so beautifully done, with such amazing art. It breaks my heart how lovely it all was.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, Aaron Allston
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  12. #57
    Boing Boing Baggies. Baggie_Saiyan's Avatar
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    Morrisons is easily the best. Snyder Vol.1 of the N52 was good everything else was forgettable and or boring. King well I have been in and out of, it is not great or even good but appreciate a few things he tried to do but largely will probably be the most forgotten out the trio.

    I hope there is no permanent creative time on Batman next, tired all these long runs would much prefer revolving creative teams!
    "Yes...Mondo Cool"- Vegeta.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    I do think examining these three writers in particular is interesting because so much of Batman follows what I considered the "trade-able approach", which is essentially standalone stories by rotating creative teams that are meant to be collected and read without requiring any other information. Meanwhile, these three follow the more modern approach, of the long winded narrative across multiple books

    Morrison's approach is telling one long narrative, but separated into acts which work as their own individual stories. Act I: Batman And Son, Act II: Batman R.I.P., Act III: Batman And Robin, Act IV: The Return Of Bruce Wayne, Act V: Batman Incorporated

    Snyder's approach is telling mostly standalone stories that are all weaved together through the same connective tissue. The Court Of Owls, Death Of The Family, Zero Year, Endgame, All-Star Batman, Metal, etc. all could be read or enjoyed without reading the others (also his run still technically hasn't concluded yet, so there's more places to take it)

    King's approach is telling one large singular story, with each arc or mini story acting as a chapter for to progress or enhance the core narrative. An example is how something like War Of Jokes And Riddles isn't as effectively standalone as Zero Year, but at the same time also fits in better with the rest of the run.

    Ultimately, it comes down to your preference in the approach, and their execution of course.

  14. #59
    Amazing Member johnnyjam2233's Avatar
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    I like the Snyder run a lot. I preferred his Black Mirror run over his New 52. What he did with Dick Grayson was great. I actually felt like Dick Grayson WAS Batman. This did begin with Morrison, but I felt it more thru Snyder. I'm LOVING the Tom King run tho. War of Jokes and Riddles is one of my favorite all time stories ever.

  15. #60
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    No, I loathe Tom King’s work on Batman and I haven’t read Batman or Detective Comics for nearly three years because of King. Actually King has made me read books from Marvel and Image, so thanks to King I am enjoying comics again. I doubt I will read Batman again because of King, and I’ll avoid Matt Reeves Batman, again because of Tom King.

    I hadn’t read Morrison’s work before and didn’t like it that much either and dropped the Batman books as well. I really enjoyed Scott Snyder’s Batman especially with its beginning, middle and end approach. Unfortunately DC couldn’t let it go and Snyder and Capullo are at it again.

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