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  1. #61
    Amazing Member johnnyjam2233's Avatar
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    I have only read the Batman and Robin run from Morrison aside from the Battle for the Cowl story. I was NOT a Damian fan. I don't care if he was augmented or not, and if these are comic books or not, a ten year old playing super hero is stupid. I liked Snyder's Black Mirror run with Dick Grayson better then his run with Grep Capullo, but I did like the Capullo run too. Tom King run tho, I LOVE IT. Parts of it. When he stated he wanted to do a 100 issue run, I was all for it, but I think he had a lot of issues that were not good, but just "FILLER" issues. His "War of Jokes and Riddles" tho, I think is a masterpiece and a legendary classic Batman story. I loved the "I AM Bane" story, and the arch with Batman's own Suicide Squad invading Bane's Sanctuary on Santa Prisca was great. Batman warning Bane that he'll break Bane's back if Bane doesn't just give in and give Batman Psycho Pirate. I don't know. I dug it a lot. I LOVED how Batman kept his warning, and I was sympathetic for Bane. The whole "I'm happy" and it was because Bane was using Psycho Pirate's power set to simply TELL Bane "You're happy" and Batman was STILL a jagoff and stole Psycho Pirate, when it could have been something as simple from Batman as "Come with me, I need Pyscho Pirate for something, but I'll give him back as soon as I'm done, as long as you stay here smiling." but because it was a comic book, that didn't happen, and the arch ended with Bane's back broken and him screaming "BRING ME VENOM!!!!" I haven't been a monthly reader of Batman for a lot of years. (Other then Morrison's Batman and Robin) but I have picked up a lot of trades along the way and thru the years. I did jump on Kings "War of Jokes and Riddles" early on tho. 3 issues in. I read them, and just felt like I was reading something special. I'm a big fan of Mikel Janin type of style of art where the illustrations are inked to almost look photogenic. Greg Land (even tho he get's his haters) has had some inking partners that would make his art look like they were photogenic. I'm thinking of his Ultimate Fantastic Four run, and Ultimate Power mini-series. Anyway. I LOVE Ware of Jokes and Riddles and own that trade as well. I just finished King's Vision mini-series he did at Marvel and loved it, and Mr. Miracle just began. King is incredible. The double date issue of Batman and Catwoman with Superman and Lois Lane ending in a Batman hitting a home run off of Superman was silly fucking genius. Also, the "Best Man" Joker story was incredible. Batman never even spoke in any of those issue. A lot of people miss just what Riddler did in the ending of Jokes and Riddles tho. How he won the war, and lost the war, and invented Kiteman. How after being shot by Joker, he had to make his smile. It wasn't Batman freaking out to the point of almost Killing Riddler, it was the Batman knew he was manipulated by the Riddler thru it all that got him so crazy that he almost killed the Riddler, and people miss this. King on Batman is great, but he does do way to much filler issues. Knightmares didn't need to happen, and it wasted months that is only NOW starting to start up again before City of Bane.

  2. #62
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    No. I agree with you. I think each writer brings their own thing to the table and that is worth reading.
    I just think after 80 years of Batman content people get nostalgic.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    No. I agree with you. I think each writer brings their own thing to the table and that is worth reading.
    I just think after 80 years of Batman content people get nostalgic.
    Agreed. And people forget too how much the character evolves according to who writes him.

    If the internet had been a thing in the 70s-80s I imagine folks may have complained that Denny O'Neil or Frank Miller 'didn't get Batman' since they each radically reimagined him in their times.

    Batman is a living document and Morrison's run did a great job of showing how rich his evolution has been. Neil Gaiman's "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader" was pretty great that way too.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Morrison is easily the best.

    Synder is solid. I enjoyed his run. King writes like he's writing for people who don't know or don't like regular Batman. He's ideas are mainly rehashing what's already been done and done better.
    I've noticed a few fans who don't like/have never been into batman but who like King's Batman.
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 06-17-2019 at 10:55 AM.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Morrison is easily the best.

    Synder is solid. I enjoyed his run. King writes like he's writing for people who don't know or don't like regular Batman. He's ideas are mainly rehashing what's already been done and done better.
    I've noticed a few fans who don't like/have never been into batman but who like King's Batman.
    Batman's been my favorite character in all of literature for almost 50 years. Tom King's Batman is my favorite Batman.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    Batman's been my favorite character in all of literature for almost 50 years. Tom King's Batman is my favorite Batman.
    Yeah, me too... Batman's my favorite, King's run and his Batman is my favorite version of Batman.

    What I appreciate about these writers is that it felt like each one had a huge story with an overarching theme that they were passionate about telling. It felt like they couldn't wait to tell this story and had been thinking about it for years, like they would have written it whether it would get published or not. It's probably not fair to say I don't get that feeling from other writers, since I have no idea how what they think or feel, but that's the impression I got, right or wrong.

    Reading something like Robinson's run on Detective or Dixon's old stuff or Tomasi's current stuff feels nothing like reading those guys. I know the point is to compare the three (not many people are putting Robinson in the same category as those guys, obviously). They just feel like Standard Batman Stories (TM). I honestly forgot the plot of Robinson's arc a day after reading it, but I can sit and discuss minute details of Morrison's or King's run years later.

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    Batman's been my favorite character in all of literature for almost 50 years. Tom King's Batman is my favorite Batman.
    Errr that's good for you. Not sure why you feel the need to tell me that but I've got friends who Never liked batman who love king's.

    We have fans on here like Millernumber1 who has always been very vocal on how they've always loved the bat family more than batman who is a big Tom King Fan.

    there are numerous Fans on here who batman has been all time favourite comic character for almost 50 years who dislike King's batman or even cite him as the worst batman writer they have ever had the displeasure of reading.

    There are fans who have read batman for decades who have dropped the title because of King.

    My comment is based on my observations and personal experiences.
    Just because a few long time batman fans happen to like King doesn't make my comment or my experience incorrect or any less valid.
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 06-17-2019 at 09:18 PM.

  8. #68
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Errr that's good for you. Not sure why you feel the need to tell me that but I've got friends who Never liked batman who love king's.

    We have fans on here like Millernumber1 who has always been very vocal on how they've always loved the bat family more than batman who is a big Tom King Fan.

    there are numerous Fans on here who batman has been all time favourite comic character for almost 50 years who dislike King's batman or even cite him as the worst batman writer they have ever had the displeasure of reading.

    There are fans who have read batman for decades who have dropped the title because of King.

    My comment is based on my observations and personal experiences.
    Just because a few long time batman fans happen to like King doesn't make my comment or my experience incorrect or any less valid.
    I wasn't necessarily telling you that and I wasn't trying to invalidate anything you said. Everyone's opinions and experiences are valid, of course. I was responding to your comment that King-Batman fans tend to be those without a longtime love of the character by throwing in my two cents as a longtime Batman fan who loves King's run. It's impossible to read these boards without reading all the hate for King's run so I'm not sure why you felt the need to tell me that except for the fact that this is a message board where people share their opinions and experiences. I was just doing what you did which I think is what we're meant to do here. No offense intended, ever.

  9. #69
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    I really enjoy Grant Morrison, ever since I got into comic books 30 years ago. Having said that, I have noticed that the vast majority of writers don't really follow-up his work once he departs a series, probably because he tends to "go off the rails" creatively as he goes along. I think he's best left to limited series not heavily tied to the main continuity.

    Snyder was a mixed bag for me. I would say overall I thoroughly enjoyed his Batman run but it got crazy at times too.

    I'll withhold judgment on King until his run is completely finished.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    I think this short essay on reddit is most interesting in this thread : https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...batman_or_the/

  11. #71
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Actually, I prefer 70s, 80s, and 90s BATMAN to all three of them.

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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    Agreed. And people forget too how much the character evolves according to who writes him.

    If the internet had been a thing in the 70s-80s I imagine folks may have complained that Denny O'Neil or Frank Miller 'didn't get Batman' since they each radically reimagined him in their times.

    Batman is a living document and Morrison's run did a great job of showing how rich his evolution has been. Neil Gaiman's "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader" was pretty great that way too.
    I think you've captured it perfectly. Personally, I don't think anyone has ever drastically changed Batman, but I recognize that there are differences here and there. I don't think that means the writer did anything bad they just decided to do something different. Difference and change are not inherently negative concepts.

  13. #73
    Mind Controller Arnoldoaad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    I think this short essay on reddit is most interesting in this thread : https://www.reddit.com/r/DCcomics/co...batman_or_the/
    Thank you very much
    It was an interesting read but I do disagree with some of points of it

    mainly the biggest one is somehow this idea that by the end of Morrison's run Batman kind of learn to be happy at being Batman, or at least found some kind of ground of him being batman.
    even though It is true that there are more instances in which could see Batman being happy doing what he did or building up what he did to a global scale is not the same as achieving some kind of peace, quite the opposite, I always saw the ending of Batman Inc as breaking all expectations, the previous issue showing Talia with a mask and a sword ready to go against the Dark Knight in one big climactic battle, only to just toss aside the masks to realize that at the end this was just childs play, because Bruce is just a kid who never grew up, he choose robin as his partner because he was a kid who he could relate to, someone who could play along with him. Bruce Wayne died on the alley, Batman is the shadow of vengance, yadda, yadda, yadda. this part is not even new from Morrison, other writers touch on this multiple times, Morrison just expanded upon it and (I like to say) defined it much better than most.

    King on the other hand tries to go beyond that, his is not a story of "Who is Bruce and who is Batman?" but rather it uses the starting point of, this is who Batman is, and he is unhappy, can he also find happiness?

    Also another point that I disagree with is that somehow we are still on that Post-Morrison era which kind of skips Snyder as being part of it and then King come here at the wrong time
    even though I dont disagree with the impact that Morrison had to the character to practically equal him with Miller, I dont agree with somehow that influence still being the dominant force behind Batman at that point or that it should still be dominant.
    this was the whole idea behind this thread, there was a post-Morrison era, there was a post-Snyder era and we are now in the post-King Era, this 3 writers stand together and tall.

  14. #74
    Incredible Member jb681131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnoldoaad View Post
    Thank you very much
    It was an interesting read but I do disagree with some of points of it

    mainly the biggest one is somehow this idea that by the end of Morrison's run Batman kind of learn to be happy at being Batman, or at least found some kind of ground of him being batman.
    even though It is true that there are more instances in which could see Batman being happy doing what he did or building up what he did to a global scale is not the same as achieving some kind of peace, quite the opposite, I always saw the ending of Batman Inc as breaking all expectations, the previous issue showing Talia with a mask and a sword ready to go against the Dark Knight in one big climactic battle, only to just toss aside the masks to realize that at the end this was just childs play, because Bruce is just a kid who never grew up, he choose robin as his partner because he was a kid who he could relate to, someone who could play along with him. Bruce Wayne died on the alley, Batman is the shadow of vengance, yadda, yadda, yadda. this part is not even new from Morrison, other writers touch on this multiple times, Morrison just expanded upon it and (I like to say) defined it much better than most.

    King on the other hand tries to go beyond that, his is not a story of "Who is Bruce and who is Batman?" but rather it uses the starting point of, this is who Batman is, and he is unhappy, can he also find happiness?

    Also another point that I disagree with is that somehow we are still on that Post-Morrison era which kind of skips Snyder as being part of it and then King come here at the wrong time
    even though I dont disagree with the impact that Morrison had to the character to practically equal him with Miller, I dont agree with somehow that influence still being the dominant force behind Batman at that point or that it should still be dominant.
    this was the whole idea behind this thread, there was a post-Morrison era, there was a post-Snyder era and we are now in the post-King Era, this 3 writers stand together and tall.
    First off, I also disagree with some of this reddit post.

    There is not "post-Miller" era. Miller is just in the continuity of Neal Adams, Len Wein, Steve Anglehart, ...

    Snyder didn't at all "follow right on the heels of Morrison’s meta-arc". Snyder did whatever he wanted and didn't care about his past much. And wrote poor stories.

    Tom King on the contrary doesn't "seems to disregard the work that others did to him". His main focus is Bgrane and his relation with Catwoman. Totally embrassing what others before started.
    Bane still has a huge grudge against Batman. And he continues the Bat/Cat relationship that had begun with Jeff Loeb in Silence and continued in Paul Dini's run.
    I don't see how his wort is "Dregressive".

    Second about your comment, I only disagree on "this 3 writers (Morrison, Snyder, King) stand together and tall". No Snyder and King did lots of bad. They don't stand tall.

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