WATCHMEN on HBO

[j9ac9k]

I can certainly understand Manhattan's desire to reconnect with humanity after his experiment failed BUT I would think it'd take longer than 20-30 years for him to feel that way.

Time is relative and Jon experiences things differently. Didn't he say he's seen things happen that occurred so quickly you'd say that it never happened at all. 20 years to him might have felt like an eternity.

[Electricmastro]

Were you asking for people to research about the history of nuclear conflict when the comics were out? I'd say no.

And? What’s that meant to mean? That if I had been alive back in 1986 to read Watchmen and not be telling people about the dangers of nuclear conflict, that doing little to no outside research about it is justified? Is that what you meant?

Well, now that you bring that up, at least in Hiroshima and Nagasaki’s cases, I’ll say that since nuclear attacks have destroyed thousands of innocent lives and that there’s still quite a bit of talk about them being used in modern times, I’d say that in at least one way I think we owe it to the victims and ourselves to do as much research as we can about it and have productive discussions that could potentially lead us to better understand the world around us, and also lead to possible solutions that could actively help with... well, not destroying humanity.

[80sbaby]

Time is relative and Jon experiences things differently. Didn't he say he's seen things happen that occurred so quickly you'd say that it never happened at all. 20 years to him might have felt like an eternity.

True but, as an audience member, I don't think they conveyed that as well as they could have. YMMV

[lilyrose]

Until the Manhattan reveal I was loving this show now I'm thinking yeah somethings shouldn't be touched.

I agree with you. I was on board with the changes to the book to make it all about racism and everything, until they fucked with Dr. Manhattan as a character. It was okay for Hooded Justice because we never really knew him and I could buy that that was huge twist, but we KNOW Dr. Manhattan. This is not him.

He should not look like this Cal guy after she pulls out the real him. He just shouldn't. That's not him. And leaving a ten year gap in his memory for all that time? That means whoever the guy was she was with, it WASN'T Dr. Manhattan! A person who has total memory loss is not the same person. At all. And he doesn't have any memory of that entire time.

I don't like what they did here. First of all, Angela changes his body two weeks after meeting him, so she didn't want to be with "him" in the first place (he could have just looked like himself- Jon before the accident). Then he loses his memory entirely, so he's a completely different guy. Then he comes back, still has no memory of what happened and now looks like this Cal person but in blue?

NO. I don't like it. It fucks too much with the source material.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm catching up with the past two episodes and I dig the hell out of episode 8. Best superhero show on tv and I'm gonna miss it when it's gone.

PS. Looking Glass and Sister Night are the coolest modern-day superheroes so we gotta step up our game.

EDIT- Sorry I was unclear before. I meant in terms of character design they are pretty cool.

[j9ac9k]

I'm catching up with the past two episodes and I dig the hell out of episode 8. Best superhero show on tv and I'm gonna miss it when it's gone.

PS. Looking Glass and Sister Night are the coolest modern-day superheroes so we gotta step up our game.

But they're not superheroes - they're cops. Does the mask make all the difference?

[Flash Gordon]

But they're not superheroes - they're cops. Does the mask make all the difference?

Yeah, I'm not sure I vibe with what they're saying with the whole cop thing.

[Flash Gordon]

I guess I kinda knew they had to use Doctor Manhattan but I wish they didn't. Not sure any of it works.

I would have preferred new characters, and leave Doctor Manhattan as more of an enigma. A lot of it seems simplistic. I do like everything with Hooded Justice a lot, and Looking Glass. Louis Gosset Jr. does a great job.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

But they're not superheroes - they're cops. Does the mask make all the difference?

Sorry I mispoke as I meant in terms of character design.

To answer your question, yes. To me a cornerstone of being a superhero is the secret identity trope.

Granted that depends on how you define a superhero. To me Buffy is more a superhero than Walter White but they both do toy with the secret identity trope.

[j9ac9k]

Nothing against the person who voiced Dr Manhattan, but it took a bit of getting used to and it really made me appreciate the job Billy Crudup did with his voice in the movie.

[Ntnon]

"We're in the fight now."

[Ntnon]

I think it's been freaking brilliant and it's more than exceeded my wildest hopes and dreams for a Watchmen followup of any sort. I'm sad there's only one more episode. I hope Lindelof stays on and they have a nice long run.

I wish Alan Moore would watch it. Not because I think he'd share my opinion, just because I'd love to hear what he had to say about it.

Echoed completely. And I think he might..

[Ntnon]

As good a storyteller as he was, we all know Moore's a bit of a tool. That's just one myopic opinion of superhero origins.

It's literary criticism, and at least as valid as much of the output of such fields - arguably more..

Speaking of the episode though, was this the only one so far with a post-credits scene?? I didn't know about it until I read an article about this ep.

I think so. The others have all had trailers.

[Ntnon]

I actually thought this captured Doctor Manhattan better than Snyder did, imo but the issue I have is that I still don’t fully buy why Manhattan would fall in love with Angela? It’s not clear why? Is it because she reminds him of his former lovers: Laurie and Janey?

This episode could easily be used to teach a variety of subjects in schools and universities (as could the series as a whole), specifically Time Paradoxes, Predestination, humanity's willingness to fight for the impossible and the age old question: why do people fall in love?

Invariably, there are myriad reasons - reminders, quirks, similarities, "GSH" etc., etc. But here we see a timey-wimey version of arguably the most plausible: we love those who accept us for what we are, but never stop fighting to make us (and our situations) better. She KNEW he knew what was going to happen. But she didn't want it to, so she fought the fight of futility. And against impossible odds.... she failed.

Nothing says love quite like that. And seeing that so clearly is absolutely the sort of happening that rekindles ones love for humanity and kindles ones love for a specific person.

Can't fault the superb (if probably not original) summary of relationships - necessarily doomed to end in tragedy of one kind or another. But then, isn't it really about the journey and not the destination...

And I don’t know why Jon still looks like Cal even though he’s returned to being Doctor Manhattan. There’s no way Manhattan always looked that, considering Angela explicitly pointed out Manhattan has taken on Cal’s appearance in blue form. In reality, I’m sure it’s more a convenient way to have Yahya play the role with just blue makeup without having a white actor come in and play the role physically but I find it odd and a bit distracting because he looks so different from the Manhattan in the graphic novel.

Right. Clearly that was a novel affectation, as much from being disoriented and still being broadly Cal. Why would he revert to gis (unseen) face..? He's trying to catch up, dealing with a flood of retrospective understanding and fulfilling his role in the drama that was always unfolding.

[Ntnon]

Yep, next thing you know, Moore might be comparing superheroes and bank robbers because they both wear shoes. The quote repeated by obatalla is indeed myopic, and has quite a bit of dissonance involved for that matter.

Shoes? Not masks? You see no parallels between people who hide their true identity so they can fight society's bad influences for their own take on creating a better future and superheroes? You see not even the shadow of a line between two disparate groups of peculiarly American social reformers dominated by white men who hide behind masks and take the law into their own hands..? It may be reaching, but it's MUCH more than shoes.

In any case, bank robbers echo highwaymen and outlaws. Like Robin Hood and Dick Turpin. Who inspired superheroes.

That may sound petty and cynical, but then again, to each their own in regards to ways one desires to start a conversation about race. People are of course free to praise this show as much as they want and praise the creators for their attempts at touching on real world issues, but at least to me, scholarly articles, books, documentaries, and the communication and research that involves solid evidence and suggestion of possible solutions in general will always triumph and take importance over what’s ultimately considerably-fictionalized and sensationalized dystopian entertainment shows like Watchmen.

I don't entirely disagree... but show me the scholarly articles on the Tulsa massacre that have been read and disseminated widely enough that it is even known about by a wide group of people. And then tell me that more people aren't now aware thanks to HBO and press coverage...

Academic discussions may be "better" but they also have to be more than a whisper in a quiet room to be discussions.