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Thread: WATCHMEN on HBO

  1. #166

    Default Interview with Cord Jefferson (co-writer of episode 6)


  2. #167
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    ... I too have the same questions about HJ having shown up in one form or another since the first episode. Where those all just misdirects? Specifically the first scene in the market stopping the robbery.
    Not positive if I'm understanding your question correctly, but Angela's Nostalgia trip was the first time we're actually seeing Hooded Justice. All The rest (the market robbery, the sex scene Looking Glass watches and of course the beginning of the latest ep) were all reenactments from that tv show. People still seem to think HJ was a white guy.

    Not for nothing, but Cooke's "Minutemen" mini that also dealt with Hooded Justice was another amazing story, even if it contradicts this one. Blame Hypertime.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 11-25-2019 at 02:10 PM.

  3. #168
    Incredible Member stillanerd's Avatar
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    Okay, I think all of us called it that spoilers:
    Will Reeves was the real Hooded Justice
    end of spoilers but that untwist didn't ruin the episode. Far from it. This was, without question, a masterclass of directing, in which it not only replicates the dreamlike quality of recalling memories, but how it also incorporates the larger themes about racism HBO's Watchmen has been exploring since the beginning.

    Watchmen season 1, episode 6 review: This Extraordinary Being
    Last edited by stillanerd; 11-25-2019 at 03:14 PM.
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  4. #169
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    Powerful episode.

  5. #170
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Default Watchmen 2019 || it hides the pain by Voordeel


  6. #171
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    An amazing hour of tv and a great origin episode. They were smart enough to tease HJ's identity throughout the show so that when we got here, it wasn't too much of a surprise but it didn't matter because there were still a lot of questions to be answered even after the confirmation of HJ's identity. It was fun to see this compared to all the "American Hero Story" segments we've seen - keeping in mind that even what we're seeing in this episode is Angela's nostalgia trip based on Will's memory so even that has suspect truth value.

    Is there any chance it's a coincidence the Klan was using a cyclops? We've seen this motif throughout - is there a connection or just something in the zeitgiest? From the illuminati eye/pyramid to Veidt's eye of horus and the squid design and ultimately Will's mesmerizing flashlight.

    Speaking of, we know Will took the mind-control projector back in the day and he has that flashlight now using the same tech - but did he make it or has he given that tech to Trieu and she made it for him? Does she plan on doing something with this tech with her tower?? I have to wonder if we're going to see the same scenario as the original play out where she brings world peace (eliminating racism??) through perverted and immoral means with only a few people knowing. I have to think that clones and Nostalgia have a bigger part to play so I dunno...

  7. #172
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Brilliant episode with some pretty breathtaking direction and editing. It may well be the best episode of the series but it's not my favourite, just because I did miss the surrealism and deranged sense of humour that's part of the other episodes.
    Last edited by Ilan Preskovsky; 11-26-2019 at 01:00 PM.
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  8. #173
    Ultimate Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    Brilliant episode with some pretty breathtaking direction and editing. It may well be the best episode of the series but it's not my favourite, just because I did miss the surrealism and deranged sense of humour that's part of the other episodes.
    I think considering how serious the flashback was, they really piled on a lot of that dark humor in the opening "American Hero Story" segment.

  9. #174
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I think considering how serious the flashback was, they really piled on a lot of that dark humor in the opening "American Hero Story" segment.
    Yeah, absolutely. Watchmen's usual lunacy wouldn't have been appropriate for this episode. I just missed it, is all.
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  10. #175
    (Formerly ilash) Ilan Preskovsky's Avatar
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    To go into this episode a bit more, one of the most fascinating aspects to it was the way in which it showed how comic book superheroes were informed by racism and vice versa. The idea that Hooded Justice had to hide his race even as he donned a mask to fight crime outside the strict realms of the law was an interesting parallel with the way that despite superhero comics being created overwhelmingly by Jews (as well as the odd Irish or Italian Catholic who were also discriminated against at the time), the superheroes themselves were made to appear as "goyish" as humanly possible. Superman is a particularly striking example of this. Here is a character created by a couple of Jewish teenagers that was informed greatly by Biblical figures like Moses and Samson and was clearly a wish-fulfillment fantasy against their own real-world disempowerment but not only was he drawn to have as few traditionally Semitic features as possible, his ship landed in the decidedly non-Jewish American heartland of small-town, Kansas, where he was raised "all-American" by a couple of quintessential mid-Westerners. It's not for nothing that Action Comics #1 was specifically referenced as an inspiration for Will.

    The other racial aspects of the episode were generally well done and were depicted with a suitable sense of nightmarish horror (though I do think it was a bit much that EVERY single white person in the episode was pretty shockingly racist) but it was this particularly fresh take on superheroes and bigotry that really stood out for me.
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  11. #176
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post

    The other racial aspects of the episode were generally well done and were depicted with a suitable sense of nightmarish horror

    (though I do think it was a bit much that EVERY single white person in the episode was pretty shockingly racist) but it was this particularly fresh take on superheroes and bigotry that really stood out for me.
    That's kind of like saying the ratio of Police Officers of the time, masquerading as Klu Klux Klansman was a tad bit high. State and local laws enforced discrimination and segregation during that time period. Being black back then meant you routinely got accosted for existing. Jim Crow on the books, lasted for nearly 90 years.

    Aren't you from South Africa? When discrimination is it's own law, how can you even extract such a feeble inclination of doubt in this setting. It's not like we were show a montage of white interactions regarding Will and his duties as a policeman back then. If they had and it had been even remotely historically accurate, using your gague, "a bit much" would be the understatement of the year. Anything on a platform like HBO has already drowned the message in sugar for the masses anyway.



    Anyhow, I've got some feelings about Sheriff Crawford and familial lineage. Probably upwards of several million Americans still find their basic identities, familial and communities under the blanket of the lost side of the Civil War. Can you be both? Is that what the show is inclining it to be taken as? Was Abar wrong her entire time in her relationship to Crawford? The way his grandfather's Klan garb was presented, it wasn't like it was burried in some box. That was a display, yet he was apart of the white night too. He could have been killed at several points in this show, up to and including piloting and Owl ship, in pursuit of the seventh cavalry. Are their a pair of factions within? Honestly some of this is colored by Don Johnson himself on some level. It's a role, he's an actor but is this, could this be and offshoot of his otherwise over the top Django character... My wife thinks the hanged Crawford is a clone, maybe. Seems he had such a high level of trust among more than a couple principle characters, like the entire masked police, to be able to hide or necessitate hiding such a thing. Then too his body was blown up at the grave site so...
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  12. #177
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post

    Not for nothing, but Cooke's "Minutemen" mini that also dealt with Hooded Justice was another amazing story, even if it contradicts this one. Blame Hypertime.
    Right on. Yes, I hadn't grasped that the American Hero Story TV show was current. Abar alluded to as much when she and Jean Smart's character were in the car explaining her backstory. I just have the Minutemen existing post WWII and the TV show would have had to follow shortly after.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  13. #178
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    The other racial aspects of the episode were generally well done and were depicted with a suitable sense of nightmarish horror (though I do think it was a bit much that EVERY single white person in the episode was pretty shockingly racist) but it was this particularly fresh take on superheroes and bigotry that really stood out for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    [font=georgia]That's kind of like saying the ratio of Police Officers of the time, masquerading as Klu Klux Klansman was a tad bit high. State and local laws enforced discrimination and segregation during that time period. Being black back then meant you routinely got accosted for existing. Jim Crow on the books, lasted for nearly 90 years.

    Aren't you from South Africa? When discrimination is it's own law, how can you even extract such a feeble inclination of doubt in this setting. It's not like we were show a montage of white interactions regarding Will and his duties as a policeman back then. If they had and it had been even remotely historically accurate, using your gague, "a bit much" would be the understatement of the year. Anything on a platform like HBO has already drowned the message in sugar for the masses anyway.
    To add to that, not "every" white person was presented as racist. Agent Blake (Jean Smart) isn't a racist. There was also the newspaper salesman Will conversed with about the Superman comic.
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  14. #179
    Ultimate Member Robotman's Avatar
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    Just when I think this show can’t get more amazing and genuinely powerful, they hit us with this episode! Truly some terrific storytelling and directing. I think most of us saw the Hooded Justice reveal coming but it was still great.

    Will has the hypnosis devise and I’m sure this will play into his and Lady T’s plan. Lady T’s daughter having vivid dreams that seem to mirror her mother’s life experiences hints that she may have been experimenting with Nostalgia memory implantation and possibly using her daughter as a test subject. So it’s possible that Will and Lady T are planning to share their pain with the rest of the world. Maybe hoping that shared trauma will end racism and allow everyone to “walk a mile in someone else’s shoes” as it were.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan Preskovsky View Post
    To go into this episode a bit more, one of the most fascinating aspects to it was the way in which it showed how comic book superheroes were informed by racism and vice versa. The idea that Hooded Justice had to hide his race even as he donned a mask to fight crime outside the strict realms of the law was an interesting parallel with the way that despite superhero comics being created overwhelmingly by Jews (as well as the odd Irish or Italian Catholic who were also discriminated against at the time), the superheroes themselves were made to appear as "goyish" as humanly possible. Superman is a particularly striking example of this. Here is a character created by a couple of Jewish teenagers that was informed greatly by Biblical figures like Moses and Samson and was clearly a wish-fulfillment fantasy against their own real-world disempowerment but not only was he drawn to have as few traditionally Semitic features as possible, his ship landed in the decidedly non-Jewish American heartland of small-town, Kansas, where he was raised "all-American" by a couple of quintessential mid-Westerners. It's not for nothing that Action Comics #1 was specifically referenced as an inspiration for Will.

    The other racial aspects of the episode were generally well done and were depicted with a suitable sense of nightmarish horror (though I do think it was a bit much that EVERY single white person in the episode was pretty shockingly racist) but it was this particularly fresh take on superheroes and bigotry that really stood out for me.
    I have some bragging rights with my friends for having called the Superman origin connection. But I didn’t think of the racial aspect of having to hide one’s ethnicity in order to be accepted as a hero. Great point that Seigel and Shuster would never have dared to make Superman Jewish as it would be immediately panned by 1930s America.

    While I do absolutely love this version of Hooded Justice, I think it takes a lot of inspiration from Darwyn Cooke’s John Henry character from New Frontier. The black man who survives a lynching, dons the hood and noose as a costume, and fights a one man war on the Klan. But it’s hard to name a character that hasn’t taken aspects of another character that preceded it. The Watchmen universe itself is a great example.

    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    To add to that, not "every" white person was presented as racist. Agent Blake (Jean Smart) isn't a racist. There was also the newspaper salesman Will conversed with about the Superman comic.
    But the newspaper salesman was of European descent. He would have been seen as “the other” at that time by white Americans. Especially during the lead up to WWII.
    Last edited by Robotman; 11-27-2019 at 08:44 PM.

  15. #180
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G. Boney View Post
    To add to that, not "every" white person was presented as racist. Agent Blake (Jean Smart) isn't a racist. There was also the newspaper salesman Will conversed with about the Superman comic.
    The desk sergeant at his precinct. Hell, he was afraid of cyclops and warned Will not to pursue out of fear.

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