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Thread: WATCHMEN on HBO

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    How do you determine when it's "warranted" or not? I'm not sure what you consider to be the distinction.
    Easy who is doing the talking?

    For some as long as the voice is not from a POC (mainly black)-it's okay.

    Watchmen, American Flag and others have always had social commentary. However the voice has not always come from a POC.


    Again I repeat, there's a difference between inserting social/political commentary where it's deserved and warranted and where it isn't deserved and warranted. Saying that "Watchmen/comics were always political" and responses to that effect doesn't automatically negate all criticism in regards to how politics are handled in shows, movies, etc.

    Comics weren't immune to criticism and never will be, even if the political card is played.
    It does when it's a cherry picking argument. Because the definition of politics seems to VARY.

    Just doing that opening seems to have offended folks for showing an historical moment.

    Would those complaining take issue if the opening showed the Irish riots of 1916? Northern soldiers fighting in the Civil War? If not. WHY the issue with Tulsa opening?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Easy who is doing the talking?

    For some as long as the voice is not from a POC (mainly black)-it's okay.

    Watchmen, American Flag and others have always had social commentary. However the voice has not always come from a POC.




    It does when it's a cherry picking argument. Because the definition of politics seems to VARY.

    Just doing that opening seems to have offended folks for showing an historical moment.

    Would those complaining take issue if the opening showed the Irish riots of 1916? Northern soldiers fighting in the Civil War? If not. WHY the issue with Tulsa opening?
    Quoted for the purest of truths.

    Besides, when discussing an explicitly political work like Watchmen, the appropriateness of the application of politics shouldn't really come up.

    It's like taking issue with sexual politics in James Baldwin's "Another Country" when that's the exact point of the story.
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    What I find stunningly surprising is that so many Americans don't even know about the Tulsa massacre.

    When discussing the series with some folks, they are just finding out about it. Granted the state pretty much blocked media coverage about it, it strikes me as odd.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    What I find stunningly surprising is that so many Americans don't even know about the Tulsa massacre.

    When discussing the series with some folks, they are just finding out about it. Granted the state pretty much blocked media coverage about it, it strikes me as odd.
    It no longer surprises me what Americans don't know.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby101 View Post
    It no longer surprises me what Americans don't know.
    I knew about the Massacre I'm a history buff but I don't remember ever learning about it in school which is ridiculous because let's be clear this wasn't a riot and while massacre fits the deaths the truth was bombs were dropped on an American City this was an act of terrorism verging on an act of war and the fact most weren't thought it is a disgrace.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I think itÂ’s a brilliant touch to have RorschachÂ’s mask represent white supremacy and right wing ideology.
    I'll admit, that turn did get me (damn you Jackie Earl Haley). From the brief trailers there was no indication other than a group of citizens, more than likely armed, took up the Rorschach mantle. I figured it would be like one of the Elseworld stories where street gangs all had Bat-Logos. So, I can't help but tie back into the original Charlton characters for Rorschach. I think this HBO Rorschach is more Ditko Mister A than Snyder Rorschach. The dots are connected a little more smooth if we're going to have what we might think, a large group of white supremacists finds causation in adopting the Rorschach mantle. Mr. A was absolute and that wouldn't be a large leap for a bonehead, now ignoring the criminals within his own ranks seems to not jive with the Moore Watchmen Rorschach so well. Then too look at who we're dealing with. Very interesting.

    Also, It was kinda tough to explain to my wife what the building blocks of this narrative might be based on the existing source material (and the movie right). It's actually kinda cool to have a cape show and be more or less blind like the GA, I'm digging that.

    As and aside, Sister Night is gonna be a really dope cosplay for a ton of chicks lol.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post

    Just doing that opening seems to have offended folks for showing an historical moment.
    Yea. Even one of the popular YT guys who pump out constant review videos for DC/Marvel cape shows/movies didn't mention the Tulsa massacre as even being race related- which was the whole point, he just said 'a massacre'. Kind of disappointing in that this dude has source material background for everytime a CW or one of the new Titan's show character passes gas but for this show- that ties to an ACTUAL event he pulled way back in the most vaguest of terms. For reasons.

    Would those complaining take issue if the opening showed the Irish riots of 1916? Northern soldiers fighting in the Civil War? If not. WHY the issue with Tulsa opening?
    That would be a no. In fact they could take the Irish riots, change all the characters to anamorphic animals... let's just say ferrets and that shit might win them an Emmy.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I am seeing a discussion of this elsewhere. Especially the attention it is bringing to the Tulsa Massacre. It seems the "politics" in this show is bringing a dark chapter of this country to light. So not only is it appropriate within the show, it is doing a service by making more people aware.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  9. #39
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    Hearing more about the plot makes me slightly more interested. But I'm apprehensive that the show runners are going to make superheroes look cool ( like Zack Snyder did). That would be the opposite of the point of the original story.

  10. #40
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    Awesome season premiere.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    What I find stunningly surprising is that so many Americans don't even know about the Tulsa massacre.

    When discussing the series with some folks, they are just finding out about it. Granted the state pretty much blocked media coverage about it, it strikes me as odd.
    I think it sorta depends on where you live. Because the state pretty much went into a state of having their fingers in their ears and singing "la-la-la" is it really shocking that it isn't well known?

    I'll admit, this was the first I've heard of it. I really dug into reading about it and marveled at how it had never come up in my life in any meaningful way. I'm not proud of it, but I'm not stunned. Our history is filled with all kinds of horrible local acts that often just stay local. They don't get highlighted or mainstreamed until someone unearths them and brings to the national consciousness.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    What I find stunningly surprising is that so many Americans don't even know about the Tulsa massacre.

    When discussing the series with some folks, they are just finding out about it. Granted the state pretty much blocked media coverage about it, it strikes me as odd.
    It's really not that stunning tbh. I didn't learn about it until my 20's and that's because I indepently heard someone mention it and did research.

    It's not really taught in schools (or at least never was in any class I ever took) and I can't imagine it's much more than a footnote in many American history books. The problem is that it was such a taboo to even talk about (for like 30 years Tulsa wouldn't even acnknowledge it in any of their media) it didn't gain a strong national traction the way something like Emett Till did or Rosa Parks or the Rodney King beatings. So there was never a national discussion or debate on it. Then it took really over half century for it to even be acknowledged and by the time people bothered to actually research it, so much information is gone. They are still trying to find where some of the mass gravesites are from it.

    For what it was, it really should go down as the worst act of racial hatred in American history after slavery. But it was never talked about or reported on or educated on. And even now that it is, it's not part of the culturally zeitgeist because the trail was deliberately cooled.

    It's honestly something the average American who isn't black has to go out of their way to find out about

  13. #43
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    Apparently this series is getting review bombed on the usual sites, seems to be becoming the norm these days - for films, video-games, and TV series to get review bombed. I don't look at 'audience' scores anymore.

  14. #44
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    Yeah we called it Black Wall Street and I agree calling it a riot is a misnomer. It's really more sad than odd that it takes a T.V show to bring things like this to light. Even black people walking around thinking the Jim Crow era was sweet or "not that bad". But that's where we're at so props to the ppl behind this for having the balls to bring this part of history to light.

    I did have some nitpicks but it's a solid debut, looking forward to more. It's also hard to believe Regina King is 48 wow.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokerz79 View Post
    I knew about the Massacre I'm a history buff but I don't remember ever learning about it in school which is ridiculous because let's be clear this wasn't a riot and while massacre fits the deaths the truth was bombs were dropped on an American City this was an act of terrorism verging on an act of war and the fact most weren't thought it is a disgrace.
    Same here. I knew of the Tulsa Massacre but I’m ashamed to admit I didn’t know the extent of the horrendous event. It’s amazing that something like this was pretty much buried from the public consciousness. Well I’m not actually surprised considering our country’s history or extreme racism. It really is criminal that it’s not taught in American History classes.

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