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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Mind wiping mutants

    After crap happneing, like Magneto killing some of these new mutants


    If people want to forget, it is their bias
    Well, the Inhumans forgot about it, the X-Men forgot about it, and most writers forgot about it, so I'd say the issue lies elsewhere...
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    Sure, I going to forget IvX when people freking forgive Bishop after the character assassination he suffered.

    I forgot he isn't blonde and sexy. oh no
    I only bring Bishop up for these discussions because they're both extremely blatant character assassinations. One of which you bring up every single time. So I bring up Bishop. Get the issue?
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Bishop's trajectory, while terrible for the character, was a part of the most popular X-men crossovers in the last decades (Messiah Complex and Second Coming), and essential to the developments of Cable, Hope and Scott for years. By contrast, IvX was a horrible story that no one that doesn't have a hate boner for Emma appreciated, and has been quickly relegated to the trash bin of history.
    Nobody cares about Hope at all and Bishop was kicked because of her. Of course the black character was brutalized and character assassinated to help the white summers clan.

    IvX was trash but it happened, and it should have consequences. And Emma did many other bad things too, different from Bishop that was always on the good side

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    You mean where she:

    A) Held off Nazi Cap's Hydra regime, protecting mutantkind from him.

    B) Saved Polaris's team and stopped Bastion and Miss Sinister.

    C) Participated in an event that literally everyone has forgotten, except you.

    So... yeah...
    A) Threw fellow mutants into re-education camps.

    B) Participated in a scheme with Bastion and Miss Sinister to infect, mutate and deform innocent and unsuspecting people. And only turned on her accomplices when she found out she was not in control or had the upper hand, which is something she is use to having.

    C) Went psycho and used Sentinels because she didn't get her way.

    Seems like typical Emma to me, she will never change; will always revert back to type.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    A) Threw fellow mutants into re-education camps.

    B) Participated in a scheme with Bastion and Miss Sinister to infect, mutate and deform innocent and unsuspecting people. And only turned on her accomplices when she found out she was not in control or had the upper hand, which is something she is use to having.

    C) Went psycho and used Sentinels because she didn't get her way.

    Seems like typical Emma to me, she will never change; will always revert back to type.
    Show me on the doll where Emma hurt you.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  6. #66
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    My god, what is the problem with being white?
    Jean is white too.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    These characters are not real and nobody loves each other for real. They will dump and love people even if it makes no sense just to for the sake of it.
    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.

  7. #67
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Implying what exactly, that Emma is bigger than the x-franchise? That she is bigger and more popular than the other a-list x-men and that she has to be character assassinated to keep the others relevant? Really! Logan, Scott, Ororo, Jean, Rogue and the rest don't need Emma to shore them up and the franchise as a whole certainly doesn't need her to shore it up. Contrary to what some like to think, Emma is not the be all end all of the X-men, if the franchise can keep going without Wolverine, Cyclops, Jean and others it can continue on fine without Emma. Maybe just maybe it's Emma who needs the X-men to stay relevant.
    It is indeed true that nobody is essential and the X-men can go wihtout Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean and the others
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    These characters are not real and nobody loves each other for real. They will dump and love people even if it makes no sense just to for the sake of it.
    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.

  8. #68
    Incredible Member RachelGrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Show me on the doll where Emma hurt you.
    lol, that never gets old, I love it when you post that.

  9. #69
    Spectacular Member jsg2295's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    It is indeed true that nobody is essential and the X-men can go wihtout Cyclops, Wolverine, Jean and the others
    Just not well

  10. #70
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsg2295 View Post
    Just not well
    that is also true. If they are dissapear at the same time it would be disastrous for the franchice as a whole but individualy nobody is unexpendable.
    Ranking of favorite characters
    Phoenix/Jean, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm

    These characters are not real and nobody loves each other for real. They will dump and love people even if it makes no sense just to for the sake of it.
    My ships: Jean/Scott, Wanda/Vision, Scott/Logan, Rogue/Gambit, Storm/Black Panther.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivka View Post
    Okay, so these are JDW's opinions, and he said he does not impose his opinions on his creative teams. And I thought his responses regarding Emma and Magneto were less reactionary than a year ago. He did not use the word "villain." He did not use the word "antagonist." He said he thought Emma makes a great PROTAGONIST, like the lead in any story, the main character, just not as a member of the X-Men. Now I disagree with that. JDW said he sees the X-Men as "heroic" and anti-heroes and protagonists who aren't pure angels need not apply; with that I wholeheartedly disagree as well. We can list the crimes and moral turpitude of several X-Men characters who JDW considers "heroes" and full-fledged X-Men. But I was impressed that he did not call Magneto and Emma "villains" and said they make good protagonists!

    In my opinion, Magneto does not belong on the X-Men as a member of the team but that doesn't make him a "villain." So I agree with JDW there, and like I said, that is a much more open-minded attitude toward Magneto than JDW had a year ago.

    But Emma Frost has been a member of the X-Men for 20 years. If "complicated" characters can't be members of an X-Men team, then we don't have any more X-Men as a concept. They are not the same as the Avengers. Anti-heroes, characters with dark deeds in their pasts, they made up the X-Men. In fact, for the last 40 years the X-Men and Xavier in particular have made it a practice of letting people join who are on redemption arcs, or who Xavier thinks can redeem themselves. There has NEVER been a purity test to join the X-Men.

    JDW will say I'm taking his opinions out of context again. Maybe so. But since he's the Editor of all the X-Books, I hope he doesn't take it personally if fans disagree with some of his assessments and expect the books to stay faithful to a basic premise of the franchise.
    Well in my opinion the thing is that all the other "complicated/questionable" characters that became X-men have for the most part stayed on the straight and narrow and have done their best to change for the better. I do not see that with Emma, I don't think she ever took being X-man seriously, never understood what being one meant. It's like she was paying lip service and enjoyed a position of privilege on account of her relationship with Scott. She was disrespectful, rude, snobbish, snidely arrogant and shallow. She never made a concerted effort to be better because she never regretted anything she did, no matter how despicable. And her fans loved her for it. So I can see and understand JDW stance regarding Emma, she just never truly fit in with the X-men. She never embraced what they were really about and what it truly meant to wear the X insignia.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RachelGrey View Post
    lol, that never gets old, I love it when you post that.
    Nothing wrong with trying to heal some trauma.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    B) Saved Polaris's team and stopped Bastion and Miss Sinister.
    Too bad that team from Blue wasn't around longer and there could have been some actual developments between Polaris and Emma. Though Bunn's Lorna needed more of her edge back to keep it from turning it into a poor man's Jean and Emma.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Well in my opinion the thing is that all the other "complicated/questionable" characters that became X-men have for the most part stayed on the straight and narrow and have done their best to change for the better. I do not see that with Emma, I don't think she ever took being X-man seriously, never understood what being one meant. It's like she was paying lip service and enjoyed a position of privilege on account of her relationship with Scott. She was disrespectful, rude, snobbish, snidely arrogant and shallow. She never made a concerted effort to be better because she never regretted anything she did, no matter how despicable. And her fans loved her for it. So I can see and understand JDW stance regarding Emma, she just never truly fit in with the X-men. She never embraced what they were really about and what it truly meant to wear the X insignia.
    It's clear you only see what you want to see. She saved them all multiple times, and was one of the best instructors in the school's history.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    that is also true. If they are dissapear at the same time it would be disastrous for the franchice as a whole but individualy nobody is unexpendable.
    Yeah, it's not a coincidence that this dead end of the franchise between 2015-2018 had pretty much all the major characters dead or relegated to the sidelines at the same time (or even out of the X-books, like Rogue).

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