Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678
Results 106 to 120 of 120
  1. #106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Just like Bishop will always go back to being a dimension hopping mass murderer, right? Or is it only character assassination when it's a character you like?
    Can you please stop engaging with this poster. Is it really worth your time? The last couple of JDW/Hickman threads have been taken over by this nonsense and it's painful for the rest of us to have to read through.

  2. #107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jsg2295 View Post
    The negativity was there but all I can remember from that time you talk about was the thread that wasnt devoted to x-men...someone even tried to get a Fantasy football league together!!!! That thread always had the most responses.
    I remember all other sections of CBR hated going to the X-Men part because everyone was so snarky.
    That hasnt changed.
    The main topic at the time was if homosexuality was natal or environmental factors. Crazy stuff.
    Actually its still there...I just never click on it. lol
    The forum certainly had a lot of character back then, and has essentially devolved into character appreciation, which is a shame. A couple of moderators had a bit of a grudge against this board and used some sort of controversy on the WW board as a mask to ban a lot of long time members on here.

  3. #108
    Extraordinary Member Wiccan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    9,919

    Default

    Ugh. I wish Emma fans AND haters stopped making everything about her.

  4. #109
    Mighty Member psylurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,060

    Default

    I finally managed to listen to the whole podcast. First of all, well done to the guys at AiPT as that was a really enjoyable one, and I also appreciate Jordan taking the time to do these interviews. I must say he came across as very likeable and down to earth, and I enjoyed hearing his views on continuity, charts, X-fans and characters.

    Reading some of the comments on these forums it's hard to disagree on how extreme and personal certain fans can be, sort of projecting themselves into fictional characters and then getting offended if something happens to them, or worse if an editor dares expressing an opinion on them. And I'm sure it must be hard to see fans wanting to almost micromanage your work ("How dare he not keep charts?!"), which I'm also guilty of at times, so I really appreciate Jordan making time to interact with fans on Twitter and doing these interviews on a weekly basis despite the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" feeling he surely must experience at times.

  5. #110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    I finally managed to listen to the whole podcast. First of all, well done to the guys at AiPT as that was a really enjoyable one, and I also appreciate Jordan taking the time to do these interviews. I must say he came across as very likeable and down to earth, and I enjoyed hearing his views on continuity, charts, X-fans and characters.

    Reading some of the comments on these forums it's hard to disagree on how extreme and personal certain fans can be, sort of projecting themselves into fictional characters and then getting offended if something happens to them, or worse if an editor dares expressing an opinion on them. And I'm sure it must be hard to see fans wanting to almost micromanage your work ("How dare he not keep charts?!"), which I'm also guilty of at times, so I really appreciate Jordan making time to interact with fans on Twitter and doing these interviews on a weekly basis despite the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" feeling he surely must experience at times.
    I think, to a certain degree, that a clash of POVs is inevitable. It's something we've seen going all the way back to Ye Olde X-Position interviews and beyond - fans think as fans and creators must think as creators, and each side gets frustrated with the other for not sharing the same priorities. I don't see that changing any time soon. I do wonder if JDW (and certain folks on his Twitter) wouldn't do better to encourage folks to, for example, discuss their opinions via the AiPT! comments section. Might do a bit to tone down the impression that there's some low-key cultivating of an "us vs them" attitude wrt one comics board.
    Last edited by Anduinel; 05-27-2019 at 06:40 AM.

    This Week's Comics: Age of X-Man: Marvelous X-Men #5, War of the Realms: Giant-Man #3, DIE: Fantasy Heartbreaker TPB

  6. #111
    Mighty Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,995

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivka View Post
    But since he's the Editor of all the X-Books, I hope he doesn't take it personally if fans disagree with some of his assessments and expect the books to stay faithful to a basic premise of the franchise.
    I've chatted with JDW here and there on the Twitters and like all forums for fans of something, people can get pretty personal and nasty if they disagree with something. Jordan genuinely enjoys chatting and hearing from readers. He would like to come to CBR more often, as it's only of the only major community sites for the X-Men, but the personal attacks make him think twice. When readers/posters are upset and say awful things about him personally, how can he not take it personally? How can any of us? I mean we, both CBR and people on the internet, can be pretty insensitive to others when trying to prove a point or vent our disappointment or anger about something.

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I enjoy interviews with JDW. I think he is a fun person and I used to enjoy X-men Monday when it was on his twitter. I hate that he seems to have a negative view of this board. They casually mentioned a message board and pretty sure he means this one. I think the negativity towards us is because so many of us have expressed disdain for both Disassembled and Age of X-man.

    I came back to the X-men after an absence for a few years, and I came back due to Teen Jean, the Jean Grey solo, and the Iceman solo. I enjoyed Blue and Gold though both had issues. I loved X-men Red. Right now I'm excited for Hickman but the current Uncanny run and Age of X-man has made it really tough to keep the excitement going. I do have faith that the X-men is about to get a lot better.

    I wish creators didn't hate the fans (celebs hate their fans, teachers hate their students - it is so old and tired). I think creators take it personally when we vocalize how much we dislike their work. I get it. I feel guilty sometimes for expressing how much I dislike the X-books at the moment. I want to enjoy them.

    I hope JDW doesn't become one of those editors that constantly feels the need to knock on the fans. I also hope he sees the support from those who are fans of the current X-books because we know they exist.
    It comes to down to respect. We may vehemently disagree with an opinion/story/etc, that's ok. Many (sadly not all) writers/editors/creators understand that. But when fans become disrespectful beyond their disappointment/anger/frustration, it's problematic. I don't blame him for taking a shot across the bow of CBR as not all of us are respectful here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Creators can't expect people to enjoy everything they put on, specially with characters that have such a following and aren't really their property, like the Marvel ones.
    Yup. I think they hope everyone will have their excitement for the content they are giving, but not everyone will enjoy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    X-men fandom sadly is really toxic and divisive. It would be wise for the creators to ignore the drama of a fan base that doesn't agree on anything. Like, no matters what happens there is always goign to be people who hate it, that's 100% sure.
    I'd say here on CBR we can be pretty toxic to anyone, but overall I don't disagree with you. It's because we're so passionate about our characters. Pure and simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    "You can please 100 percent of people 0 percent of the time."
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Since I've been on CBR (around 2012), the X-books forum has always been by far the most negative in the entire site. Name a popular run that people look at fondly now and at least 60% of the forum members hated it when it was actually running lol. Only the Wonder Woman sub-forum comes close in negativity and even that ain't really close.

    Hickman's run isn't gonna be any different so I think JDW should honestly just not read the forum. It's not worth it at all lmao
    Ha

    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    I finally managed to listen to the whole podcast. First of all, well done to the guys at AiPT as that was a really enjoyable one, and I also appreciate Jordan taking the time to do these interviews. I must say he came across as very likeable and down to earth, and I enjoyed hearing his views on continuity, charts, X-fans and characters.

    Reading some of the comments on these forums it's hard to disagree on how extreme and personal certain fans can be, sort of projecting themselves into fictional characters and then getting offended if something happens to them, or worse if an editor dares expressing an opinion on them. And I'm sure it must be hard to see fans wanting to almost micromanage your work ("How dare he not keep charts?!"), which I'm also guilty of at times, so I really appreciate Jordan making time to interact with fans on Twitter and doing these interviews on a weekly basis despite the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" feeling he surely must experience at times.
    All of this. You don't have to like what is happening, but don't make it personal. I literally hate every decision they have made with Rachel the past two years, but I was able to have a great conversation with him and got him to understand the optics around how these "reads" to female readers and fans. I think he's a pretty good guy doing a hard job to please as many people and shareholders as possible.

  7. #112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    All of this. You don't have to like what is happening, but don't make it personal. I literally hate every decision they have made with Rachel the past two years, but I was able to have a great conversation with him and got him to understand the optics around how these "reads" to female readers and fans. I think he's a pretty good guy doing a hard job to please as many people and shareholders as possible.
    Yeah, I had a similar experience with JDW soon after he took the X-Editor mantle regarding treatment of LGBTQ characters. It's not that he's not receptive or unwilling to engage, I just think he's frustrated by the non-stop barrage.
    Last edited by Anduinel; 05-27-2019 at 06:50 AM.

    This Week's Comics: Age of X-Man: Marvelous X-Men #5, War of the Realms: Giant-Man #3, DIE: Fantasy Heartbreaker TPB

  8. #113
    Mighty Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,995

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anduinel View Post
    Yeah, I had a similar experience with JDW soon after he took the X-Editor mantle regarding treatment of LGBTQ characters. It's not that he's not receptive or unwilling to engage, I just think he's frustrated by the non-stop barrage.
    Agreed. I don't envy his job, but I am glad he's open to conversing with fans and hearing them out (provided we're not just attacking).

  9. #114
    Fantastic Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    I finally managed to listen to the whole podcast. First of all, well done to the guys at AiPT as that was a really enjoyable one, and I also appreciate Jordan taking the time to do these interviews. I must say he came across as very likeable and down to earth, and I enjoyed hearing his views on continuity, charts, X-fans and characters.

    Reading some of the comments on these forums it's hard to disagree on how extreme and personal certain fans can be, sort of projecting themselves into fictional characters and then getting offended if something happens to them, or worse if an editor dares expressing an opinion on them. And I'm sure it must be hard to see fans wanting to almost micromanage your work ("How dare he not keep charts?!"), which I'm also guilty of at times, so I really appreciate Jordan making time to interact with fans on Twitter and doing these interviews on a weekly basis despite the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" feeling he surely must experience at times.
    I agree some fans take things way too far. That has always been the case. Like many here, I've posted on x-men message boards for more years than I care to admit. I can recall a certain Jott shipper allegedly sending death threats to Greg Pak during Phoenix Enddsong and before that I believe Morrison got them from shippers (I'm not knocking all shippers, but there has been some that went too far to even criminal activity when you are sending online death threats to creators). There are fans that are too rabid and take things to the extreme. There are fans who do not have the best mental health. I wish these fans did not give us all bad names. I wish the outliers weren't used to widely criticize the consumer base (but look at comicsgate and those bigots continue to make geek/nerd fandom look horrible). I get it. Not all fans are created equal and there are fans that act in extreme bad faith.

    I just think the editors and creators should stay above the fray. For example recently one of the comics twitter guys had a thread making fun of fans who were criticizing Jean in the Marvel Girl outfit and even Zac Thompson posted a few things. I just don't think they are always fair to the fans and to fan criticism. I think they assume the worst of most of us, unless we think about the books in the same way they do. Most of us will have a different relationship to the books than the creators because most of us are just readers and are not creators. Some of us are wannabe creators, but most of us are not.

    I only saw a handful of people (if that) being upset with Jean in the Marvel Girl dress. I felt they used it as an excuse to knock on the fans. It can be off putting (and I'm not offended because I agreed with them - I love that they put Jean in the green outfit and out of the X-men Red costume)

    I just don't think constantly blasting fans is the right tactic. Fans are going to discuss, especially on message boards, and on these boards you have to have thick skin. If you are creator there will be folks who do not like your work and they may have challenging, biting, or bold critiques. You will likely disagree with most of the critiques. Most critiques will not be a professional critique as you would find in a major publication or one found in an academic literary journal. Just be prepared.

    I'm sure it is tough hearing from disgruntled fans but I think it is best just to ignore the outliers (the crazy types). I do suspect they knock on this forum due to the negativity/criticism of the current books than a few outliers who come across as too rabid. But I could be wrong.

    I think our criticism of how minority characters are presented is extremely valid and though a lot of creators seem like they agree with us, it still doesn't translate much in the actual books (re: the trans panic story from an alleged ally Matt Rosenberg). If you look at the current books the cis white male dude bro characters are all centered and female and minority characters are not being treated very well (look at Rahne, Jean, Storm, etc). It is the same story over and over again with very little progression.

    I think JDW is a good person, but there is so much room for improvement. I am hopeful that Hickman will give us an amazing X-men story that will rival Grant Morrison or Joss Whedon. I also was very excited when JDW was named as an editor because he was a fan (like us), but so far I've enjoyed the X-men under Mark Paniccia better (which is saying a lot because Blue and Gold both had problems).
    Last edited by MechaJeanix; 05-27-2019 at 07:47 AM.

  10. #115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    I just think the editors and creators should stay above the fray. For example recently one of the comics twitter guys had a thread making fun of fans who were criticizing Jean in the Marvel Girl outfit and even Zac Thompson posted a few things. I just don't think they are always fair to the fans and to fan criticism. I think they assume the worst of most of us, unless we think about the books in the same way they do. Most of us will have a different relationship to the books than the creators because most of us are just readers and are not creators. Some of us are wannabe creators, but most of us are not.
    The inclusion of the dress is kind of a wash for me, really. I don't see why Jean couldn't have gotten some new duds for the cover, but the green mini is also one of three iconic outfits Jean has, and the other two are either tied to a very specific (done to death) storyline or extremely dated in a different context. But the comparison being made was to a moment where there were explicitly stated, character-specific reasons for bringing that look back vs going retro after it's been strongly implied on two fronts that the wardrobe change has no deeper motivation/won't be explained. The comparison lacked context to the point that it was bordering on the sycophantic, and I just had to roll my eyes at that whole bit.

    This Week's Comics: Age of X-Man: Marvelous X-Men #5, War of the Realms: Giant-Man #3, DIE: Fantasy Heartbreaker TPB

  11. #116
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    5,275

    Default

    I like JDW as editor. He often interacts with fans, instead of isolating himself on his job.

    Despite his opinions, he lets writers pitch things that contradicts his views.

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    2,232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post

    Despite his opinions, he lets writers pitch things that contradicts his views.
    This really is the most important.

  13. #118
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    8,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    It's obviously Rogue's fault. I bet Kelly Thompson is gonna write an issue where Rogue is amazing at skateboarding while Gambit is trash.
    Ugh! They canít get her off that series fast enough!!!! Because of her, I absolutely abhor Rogue!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dthirds3 View Post
    Which one ? if we're talking about Barbra or Stephenie no chance gambit loses. If its Cassandra she'd win.

    Also who had money on divorce due to gambit cheating on her, it appears you made a safe bet and will probably be right.
    It was satire. I doubt those two are getting a divorce anytime soon.

  14. #119
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    829

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Hopefully one day users understand that trying to undermine and devalue entire works by constantly calling them "filler" or "useless" may not put them in the best light with a group editor or the attached writers.
    That's never going to happen, unfortunately.

    While some constructive criticism (from fans/readers) can be helpful going forward, we should remember that these issues/stories are planned and written long before the books are published so we end up (over)reacting to something that's not really changeable. Going forward, the writers and editors can make changes to the story, if they see fit...but I'd wager that 95% of our vitriolic complaining and shytty attitudes are ignored...and rightly so...as we generally (and here in CBR, specifically) make up a very small percentage of the total actual readership.
    I fully live by and endorse the maxim: If you don't like it...don't buy it.
    At the end of the day Marvel and The X-editors and writers are not going to fall apart because of a mere handful of malcontents. And my life won't come to a crashing end because I can no longer enjoy my favourite comic book team or character.

  15. #120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    Reading some of the comments on these forums it's hard to disagree on how extreme and personal certain fans can be, sort of projecting themselves into fictional characters and then getting offended if something happens to them, or worse if an editor dares expressing an opinion on them. And I'm sure it must be hard to see fans wanting to almost micromanage your work ("How dare he not keep charts?!"), which I'm also guilty of at times, so I really appreciate Jordan making time to interact with fans on Twitter and doing these interviews on a weekly basis despite the "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" feeling he surely must experience at times.
    You can't please everyone all of the time, and you can't simply do what other people say you should do when it's not going to work for you, especially in any kind of leadership role. This is true. In many cases, someone in a leadership role needs to make decisions that they determine are best for their area of responsibility and absorb the consequences of those decisions. It's tough, it takes time to acclimate, but it's part of the job.

    However. Having to do something that will upset a particular group doesn't mean it ends there. Unless you do the job for one month and promptly quit, there will be other opportunities in the future to satisfy that upset group. The longer you're doing the job, the more opportunities you have - which simultaneously makes "I can give what happened here a pass cause maybe he'll do something later" less likely. The longer nothing happens, the more likely it appears that it never will with that editor. Because the editor passed on multiple opportunities already. Even if a big thing can't be done, a lot of small things surely can be.

    As far as personal management style, like keeping charts, it would be expected that someone in a leadership position would be open to trying approaches they haven't tried before. Now, if they tried it and it didn't work, so be it. But if they never tried it, how would they know it won't work for them? They could be doing something purely cause it's what they've always known rather than because it works best for them. People in general are resistant to change. But leading something means having to attempt it. This also has an impact on the work itself.

    There's also patterns of behavior. Again, the longer they're on the job, the more patterns they exhibit. It's inevitable. The patterns are fine when they're innocuous or helpful. But when they're harmful or negative, there should be efforts to rectify. Not doing so means at best, the person is unaware of their problem areas. At worst, what they're doing is intentional. The exact circumstances of what they're doing and how they're doing it might, in some cases, show whether it's intentional or due to lack of awareness.

    I'll wrap up with this. As a person, I feel bad for JDW. He has a lot of pressure to deal with at the same time as he's raising an infant with his wife. I've seen some of the godawful things said about him, and even ranted on Twitter last September about one particularly horrible false accusation someone made about him (and another Marvel person). Some things said cannot be justified as "feedback." Some is just terrible people being terrible and making excuses to try to get away with it.

    But as an editor, I don't feel bad for the criticism and complaints he gets about his work - or how his views might be influencing that work. It's part of the job. Anyone in his position would have to deal with it. He's been X-Men editor since around March 19, 2018 and senior editor since January 4 this year. He's had time. He's shown patterns. If he doesn't like a criticism, he could do things to fix the problem. And I stress do. Not say. Words are easy. Action is hard. Otherwise, he can let the problem sit or double down on it and deal with the consequences of that decision too. Which again, is part of the job.
    I can also be reached on Twitter and WordPress.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad, now complete!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •